Adrenal issues can overlap / mimic thyroid issues....

[jannz]

Hi Everybody,

I haven't checked in here for awhile.... and I saw the post on TSH / T4 levels so I thought I would post information about how adrenal symptoms mimic and overlap thyroid symptoms.  I've also got an update on my LDN therapy.

Quick background...my first autoimmune disease symptom was vitiligo, then Hashimotos presented itself, and then it looked like I was getting Sjogren's.   I decided back in Dec '07 to start LDN therapy to stop the progression of my autoimmune disease.  After a false start of LDN in Dec... I decided to restart LDN in Feb. without being on THR (thyroid hormone replacement).   

RE:  Adrenals
I was scheduled to have my 'Well Woman" checkup in April and at the urging of someone on another forum I asked to have adrenal testing done.  The test involved collecting saliva at four specific times during the day. It takes about a month to get these results back so and when I went back in to go over all the testing I had done, my adrenal results really concerned my doctor. I was EXCEPTIONALLY low at all the specified times.  The test also measures DHEA-s levels too -- and I was also low there too.  My doctor suggested I take some adrenal extracts and some DHEA.  Well, before I take anything I have to do research.

I learned that the adrenals and the thyroid have this somewhat "symbiotic" relationship -- with the adrenals needing a little more priority.   The symptoms for thyroid disease -- hypothyroidism in my case -- are also adrenal symptoms.  I learned that if you do have adrenal issues you need to address those BEFORE you address any thyroid issues.  Often addressing the adrenal issues will help the thyroid issues...but NOT vice-versa.  That's why a lot of thyroid folk still feel awful EVEN though their labs may be within range etc -- in fact, if someone has both conditions and only treats the thyroid, it can make the adrenal condition  worse.   

I found Dr Rind's adrenal / thyroid table helpful in understanding the overlap of symptoms --   http://drrind.com/scorecardmatrix.asp
... and  Dr James Wilson book on Adrenal Fatigue to be the most helpful.   http://tinyurl.com/3lm4c6

OK -- so I learned everything I wanted to know about adrenals...and then something occurred to me.   The majority of folks that use LDN  therapy take their LDN dose at night.  LDN's one side-effect is sleep distubance...which for most folks resolves within the first week or so.   Well, mine lasted for over six weeks.   I would take my LDN dose around 10pm and then "boing" 1:30-2am I would be wide awake.  This happened nearly every night for over six weeks.  I was so sleep deprived that I felt it dangerous to drive.  Well, it was right about this time that I took that (first) adrenal test.

So I decided I would take another adrenal test....and with this second test I had already switched to LDN day-time dosing about four weeks prior.   Got my results back and while my DHEA is still low, my cortisol is well within range --  not exactly optimal -- but certainly NOT at the extreme levels with the first test.   I will be adding DHEA to my regimen, but NOT any adrenal extracts.

OK  --  so while I knew that getting good sleep always made me feel better, I learned through this adrenal testing that  good sleep is EXTREMELY important to our health....that there are measurable implications to NOT having slept well.       

RE:  LDN therapy

I have detailed my LDN adventure extensively on another forum where there are several of us autoimmune thyroid folk trying LDN  -- but in a nutshell I will say this;   I feel better being on LDN than I did when I was on THR at optimal levels.  That chronic fatigue "dread" feeling that I couldn't seem to shake...well I just don't feel like that anymore.   

When I went off my THR  back in January I went hypo...so my LDN experiment is dealing with being in a hypo status vs being euthyroid.  My cholesterol also shot up to over 200.    I've been having labs done every 6wks and my numbers are all improving.  My cholesterol has dropped....my antibodies have dropped... my thyroid labs are within the labs ref-range... However, even though the lab doesn't consider me hypo I know I'm not optimal yet --  so I know I have more work to do there....and I may even have to go back on THR, but at the moment based on symptoms, I don't feel like I need to just yet.   I'm just feeling very positive about this experience so far.

ANYWAY.... just thought I would check-in and say "Howdy"....

Best wishes...
Jann

BTW:  If you want to read more about my LDN experience:  http://tinyurl.com/3grq4o

[Scottietottie]

Hi Jann 

It's good to hear from you and I'm glad you are feeling better for your treatment.

Adrenals is a topic that hasn't cropped up much in here but it certainly crops up a lot on thyroid forums. It makes a lot of sense that long term diseases can make people feel really stressed and then the adrenals can suffer.

Thanks for the link and the book titles.

Take care - Scottie 

[Patze]

Hi Jannz,

Nice to see you back!  I do remember you searching for answers and I'm glad to see that you found some.  I'll look into the adrenal information supplied by Dr. Rind, I've always said that even though my numbers are supposedly "right on", I don't feel a whole lot better (still having a lot of hypo & some hyper symptoms). 

Anyway, I'm on my 2nd endo and maybe I'll give her one more chance to work with me instead of just the old "one pill does the trick for everyone" routine (and the new one of "well you're getting to that age" thing).  I know, I get on my soapbox about this, but I do so hate that mindset.

I'll look into LDN - thanks for the info!

Take care -

Patze

[jannz]

Hi Patze,

You mentioned how you remembered that I had been searching for answers.  Well, on the about.com thyroid forum Mary Shomon posted a thread asking "What was the one thing you wished your doctor had told you when you first diagnosed with a thyroid condition?" 

I thought about it awhile....thinking back through all the stuff I've been researching over the years... especially this last year while researching LDN therapy --  and it just really sunk in -- this is how I responded to that question:

The one thing I wish I had understood earlier about autoimmune thyroid disease is that it is NOT a problem with my endocrine system --  it's a problem with my IMMUNE system. Treating the symptoms with meds that target the thyroid gland will NEVER heal or correct the immune system issue.   Autoimmunity needs to be addressed at the root level.

When we go to an endo or any doctor for that matter... and they have this approach of a  "one size fits all" mentality about treating symptoms...and then the treatment really doesn't address the core issue... well goodness...how are we ever going to get / feel better ??

I hope you figure something out and get to feeling better too.

Best wishes...
Jann