rivers of saliva?????

[bluegardenia]

so if its not due to glandular damage to what its due? if the glands are not offended it means that its functional amd this is very different

[alwaysimproving]

Perhaps I should have used the word "intact" instead of "functional". It appears that the loss of function is not necessarily only due to damage of the glandular tissue, but also due to the inhibitory effects of the inflammatory cytokines on normal cell function and possibly damage to neurological structures.

[bluegardenia]

im sorry i did not expalin well, im not english.
i mean that if the damage is not phisic because glands are not materially damaged it means that its their "function", their "work" that does not work.. hope i explained what i mean like a car that does not  start. its not the engine but the imput, when the key turns the electric impulse does not arrive to the engine

[irish]

The cells of the glands become swollen from inflammation and white blood cells rush to these cells and attack them. The body thinks the cells of the salivary glands are an invader or bacteria, etc and try to kill these cells off.

It is multidimensional because the saliva itself is also not normal because of the white blood cells attacking the salivary glands resulting in  way the mucus is made. Our abnormal mucus doesn't meet the normal criteria of chemicals, bacterial content, etc. that normal people have. Basically, our body is trying to kill us off and with Sjogrens the salivary glands produce abnormal mucus and the salivary glands (big and small) are inflamed and can't operate normally. Tough situation to find a treatment for.

It seems that the treatments for aches and pains are easier to hone in on than the mucus secreting issues. Remember that this affects the secreting cells of the stomach, colon, pancreas, liver,bladder, etc and can make for lots of other issues. In general mucus production in our bodies are totally screwed up and affect our whole way of life. The swelling in the mucus producing cells is what causes the salivary glands to have the issues with stones, lack of drainage, etc. Good luck. Irish

[cccourt1942]

What Irish said!! 
     Blue:  Remember the white cells have turned against our bodies by "eating" our mucous.  Thinking about the precious mucous in our eyes and our oral cavity as gooey substances (due to the white cell interference).  This gooey stuff clogs up the ducts at times, but in most of us it goes on thru and that is the glop we complain about in our throats, etc.
     I have never had an MRI.  An ENT poked around on my salivaries and stated all are hardened but for my right parotid.  I don't know if it is true...but taking the amount of pilocarpine I take, I'd be surprised if he wasn't accurate.  So, for simplicity sake, I state my glands have atrophied.  Oh...ophthmal has said same of lacrimals.  Anyway..back to "damaged" salivaries:  I do NOT know this, it's what I THINK.  So don't repeat with authority: Irish and I have explained the "why" ...the gooey substance just can't irrigate our oral cavities like normal saliva does.  And the few of us who do have atrophied salivaries don't feel anymore uncomfortable than anyone else, we just have less saliva (and sometimes toooooooo gooey saliva) than the rest of you.  It's more like that car that doesn't work is filled with hardened oil.    The rest of you just have old oil still functioning but need to get it changed...but oops...the mechanic filled your tank with OLD oil again.  Darn mechanic.

    Will write a separate private message to tell you what we're doing Christmas.  Very excited.  Hope you are doing well with holidays.  Know it's hard on you.
c3

[alwaysimproving]

Lot of misunderstanding and misinformation...

[irish]

I am just trying to make it very simple because the bottom line is our bodies are under attack and the white blood cells are invading the glands causing inflammation and inability of cells to produce normal mucus. There is a lot more involved but we are going for the simple here. Inflammation is the name of the game from inflammatory response.

The resultant inflammation is what causes a lot of pain, swelling, glands get plugged up from WBC and inflammatory response. Moisture(mucus) produced is abnormal ie., thick abnormal bacteria and kind of bacteria in mucus plus chemicals in the mucus abnormal. Thus we get set up for cavities, salivary stones, salivary duct and gland spasms, etc. More complicated but doesn't make much difference as inflammation is the causation.

P.S. I probably repeated myself but it is late.

[bluegardenia]

thanks irish and ccc for the explanations.
another silly question... any of u made a test of your saliva? or is it possible to do it? or does it exist?

[irish]

I would not even do it. I can tell by the taste of my saliva, the color and consistency that it is not the same stuff I had for many years. Also, I had many cavities and abscesses with root canals which is common in Sjogrens. THe mucus doesn't have the normal bacterial balance which protects the teeth from cavities and infections in gums, etc. I have as a result lost all my teeth which is also common in Sjogrens.

I guess the only way that one could get that done would be by someone in research who could do it for no cost. It would be hard to get done I believe and also not really be something that is needed to be done. Do some goggling regarding abnormal mucus sjogrens and I would bet that you would find some info plus more links to help you. I did the googling years ago and found all that I needed to satisfy my curiosity. Irish