Fish oil or NOT?

[Carolina]

Dear Sjogren's Angels,

Have I asked this?

On March 30, 2015 the New York Times had an article titled:  Fish Oil Claims Not Supported by Research

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/03/30/fish-oil-claims-not-supported-by-research/

What's a lady of a certain age with a history of severe Coronary Artery Disease to think.  If I ask my Cardiologist she will definitely say 'keep taking it.  What do you have to lose?' 

As it is I'm taking TWICE (2,400 mg) what I was taking when I started seeing her 5 years ago...and that was 11 years into my post angioplasties stents horror show (for me, no big deal for those of you who have had ByPass I know).

This is the second paragraph:

But there is one big problem: The vast majority of clinical trials involving fish oil have found no evidence that it lowers the risk of heart attack and stroke.

So I will ask what my favorite medical mavens and arbiters of good sense have to say.  Me, I have no earthly clue what is right on anything any more.

Hugs, Elaine

[Joe S.]

I use the flax seed oil version of omega3. I take 5600 units a day. My cholesterol levels did a serious nose dive. Far better than the maximum I could get with statins. My brother-in-law that works at the human nutrition lab in Grand Forks, ND doing these studies always has a few questions about published research.

1. Who paid for the study?
2. How big was the sample?
3. What procedures did they use?

One of the tasks he did for the US Government was to redo the vitamin and mineral studies of the30's. A task that comes up every 20 or 30 years as protocols are improved. He recieved an award for discovering that people that live in colder climates need additional iron in their diet. Plants do also. He works with rabbits, rats, and human volunteers.

[Carolina]

There are my last numbers of last June, 2014   Below is the entire history.  This is WITH 80 MG Lipitor a day.  And the fish oil.  For what that's worth!
Cholesterol, Total       169
Triglyceride       99
HDL Cholesterol       64
Low Density Lipoprotein       85.2


Name
Standard Range
                                       7/2/10   2/7/11   4/4/11   10/3/11   3/26/12   9/25/12   6/10/13   6/23/14   
Cholesterol, Total            181             190                                                                          169   
HDL Cholesterol                     40              54              55              46              47                41        39       64   
Low Density Lipoprotein   107             112                                                                           85.2   
Triglyceride                   170             125        195             198              201      148        145       99

[Nomad]

Funny you should mention it.  I noticed my gyno mentioned in passing something about taking flax seed oil, but something came up and the conversation was never completed. I plan on seeing her again in about four months and will follow up if she was referring to making a switch from fish oil to flax seed oil.

[Scottietottie]

Hi 

It was my opthamologist who suggested I take fish oil - or flax oil - either but fish oil is cheaper here. I take 1000mg capsules three times a day. I think it has helped my eyes and it helps to keep me 'regular' too. I think it has maybe helped my hair as well.

Take care - Scottie 

[cccourt1942]

Carolina:  This time-what Scottot said!!     My ophthalmologist recommended this supplement..for my EYES.  If I were to read this report with results showing no benefits to eyes I would be skeptical.  Not only did it change my eyes, it removed the "red" in my eyes within ...gee..I'd say within a couple of months.  I started using Omega 3 a year before Restasis.  Now then...for the other health condition: it would be hard for me to give it up if I had taken it for a long time.  You do have past heart treatment history---who says this supplement hasn't already helped you?  There are studies, and then there are studies.  Joe referenced great points when reviewing  a study.  I would say in addition to the size of the sample to see if there were two groups.  THEN you get into length  of time for the study.  This can go on and on. 

Do what makes you comfortable!!
c3

[Carebear]

Dear Elaine,

I heard about this study on the news. 

I suppose it depends on your reason for taking the fish oil.  I take 4000 mg daily to help with the dryness of my eyes and the inflammation I experience body wide.  For me, it has helped relieve some symptoms, so I will continue using it.

Both my opthamologist and chiropractor recommended this for me, and no other doctors have said otherwise to me.

That's what I think, for what it is worth.

[bluegardenia]

i take flaxseed, just 100 mg a day and it changed my eyes. i notice the difference if i dont take it. my immunologist gave it to me and also my doctor of the eyes.i use also a lot of olive oil,and never use butter

[Sooki]

I take fish oil for overall inflammation, especially joint pain.  Studies that looked at heart and stroke events might have overlooked those results.

I think the understanding of fish oil benefits is that the omega-3 to omega-6 balance in the diet is increased by taking the high-omega-3 supplements.  The modern diet tends to be very high in omega-6s mostly from polyunsaturated vegetable oils (canola, corn, soy, etc.) and to some extent, from feedlot- (grain-) fed meats.  These factors are seldom controlled for in dietary studies.  And some of the older studies probably didn't exclude trans fats which everyone agrees are bad news.

It's always difficult to design and interpret dietary studies in general.  Either they depend on self-reporting of dietary intake which is unreliable or on controlled intake which is very expensive and difficult to run for any length of time.  I think studies are getting better but the difficulties are inherent to some degree.

[Head2Toe]

I personally gave up trying to follow any specific diet about 10 years ago after reading a document that summarized a series of dietary studies and associated cultural health/disease rates (e.g. traditional Inuit and First Nations, Japanese, Mediterranean, vegetarian, etc.) and the fact that they totally contradicted one another.  I'm generally content with my body's natural craving for what I consider to be the basics:  meat, veggies, and fruit.  I would eat more seafood, but my husband doesn't eat anything that comes from the ocean and only eats white fish if it's breaded

We're all out here doing the best we can with what we've got.  We investigate our health challenges, explore our options, experiment with treatments (medical/alternative/complimentary) - and if we are lucky we find something that brings us some degree of relief and/or peace of mind.  What works for one may not work for another, but it is wonderful that we can share our thoughts, ideas, and experiences - and learn from one another.

Elaine - It seems to me that you are extraordinarily in tune with your body.  Do you believe the fish oil you've been taking has had a beneficial effect?

[Kathy57]

Elaine, my eye Doctor INSISTED that I take 2000 of Flax seed oil daily.  He made such a big deal out of it that I've been doing it. 

I used to take fish oil but he insisted that it be Flax seed oil.  He was convinced I'd see improvement in my eyes.

Don't know much more than that.  I just do what I'm told.  (Most of the time 😃). Lol


Kathy

[Carolina]

Honestly there was an article recently about how studies must be designed to be accurate and it was so confusing I just gave up half way through.   When statisticians get going, I get lost.

Between 'self selection' (People doing the 'thing' because they want to) 'the placebo effect' (you think it will help so it does) lack of 'control groups' (and how they would be selected) and so on, I was adrift.  I do know that how well your graduates do from a program (college, etc) tells you nothing about how they were selected in the first place, How many STARTED the program, how many were flunked out and how many dropped out and how many transferred to another program.  In other words, it's all lies lies and damned statistics (oh and more lies).

And that is about a simple 'statistic' called graduation rates (which I knew from teaching in a college).

So, IS the fish oil helping?  Honestly how would I know?  I take 80 mg of Lipitor!  Do you know how much that is?  Most people take 20.

I exercise.

I have lost about 30 pounds in the last three years or so.

I have IVIG (which I think makes a difference, but who knows?)

My eyes haven't gotten drier...but then do I KNOW why?  They aren't LESS dry, that's for sure.

I take gazillion meds, trust me on that.  Not as many heavy hitters as some of my fellow Sjogren's Angels, true.  No Plaquenil or Methotrexate,

My 'conditions' are mostly 'not a big deal' except for the Coronary Artery Disease, and that was scary with my major coronary artery 95% blocked.  But blocked arteries don't actually cause many heart attacks, it's a piece of plaque erupting, gathering debris and floating down to the narrowed spot and causing a blockage.  Same for strokes.

And no one KNOWS WHY I have the profound peripheral neuropathy.   I think it was caused by my immune system attacking my Peripheral nerves, and the same with Small Fiber Neuropathy and Interstitial Cystitis.  Anemia?  Who knows? 

i think my Immune system first took out my Exocrine system (moisture system) back in 2002.

And caused my severe eczema and so on and so forth.  All attacking me in many ways.  Instead of doing it though auto antibodies it just outright attacks me.  That's why my Immunologist thinks too.  This is her theory.

she keeps hoping that by strengthening my Immune system, it will calm down and stop the attacks.  Since it also attacks the treatments that are supposed to be helping strengthen it, (IVIG), I'm not so convinced it's getting the message.

In the mean time, I have plenty of Fish Oil left....and why not take it?  It is expensive of course.

But then, I'm worth it.  I just started wearing my Lyric hearing aids again.  I decided I like them so much, why not?

Wearing them three years ago spoiled me for regular hearing aids, alas.

Hugs,  Elaine

[Nomad]

Carolina and anyone else that can relate to this!!!
Re:
Neuropathy in the foot and exercise
I might have some sort of neuropathy in my foot. I've seen several podiatrists and one said I had Morton's neuroma and I got shots. Ouch! That helped temporarily.  I have a callous near the pain/numbing and I've noticed it lessons (temporarily) after each pedicure! It is also better (temporarily) after applying an OTC Capsaisin cream. I really think it is a neuropathy of some sort.
If I use the treadmill or elliptical, this pain becomes awful.

Sooo...do you have any neuropathy in your feet? If so, what helps? And most important...what kind of exercise do you do?

Many thanks!

[Carolina]

Morton's Neuroma

http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/mortons-neuroma/basics/definition/con-20026482

My son had this in his 20's and had the neuroma removed surgically, so he's fine.

I use PediFix Deep Healing Foot Cream to keep my calluses away.

I don't let the person doing a pedicure touch my feet beyond the nails.   I have too many problems.

I have neuropathy everywhere from the knees down and Raynaud's.

I don't do any special exercises:  aerobic of my own in the pool, the new step at the health spa.

I'm 73, by the way, in case you've forgotten, so I have lots of stuff and can't really walk from the Neuropathy.

I hope you get some help and relief.

Hugs, Elaine

[Deb 27]

Carolina, yes, I've read that about fish oil too. I don't know what to make of it but I feel if several studies come out about it, then maybe there is something to it. It's so confusing. These "studies" come out one week and then another one the next contradicts the findings. I don't think most of them are all that great and have major flaws.

It seems that over and over again that The Mediterranian Diet gets thumbs up for cardiovascular disease. 

Yep, that's a high dose of lipitor for sure.  You must have a familial high lipid situation. But, now, your numbers are awesome and getting better. That's got to be a good sign!! Wish mine were that good.

I would take more fish oil but it gives me d-.......... I am working on a Flax seed oil and combination fish oil that my eye Dr. recommended. It can also give me loose stools. But, they say it helps and I have noticed it really helps my mood.

Some Drs. say you have to take at least 2,000 mgs or more to affect your lipids. That's a lot of fish oil for people with sensitive stomachs like me.......

Nice topic!!