Inappropriate?

[Friedbrain]

I have been to soooo many doctors over the years, with so much frustration over wait time and juggling disappointment and stupid doctors and such, that I've been trying really hard to distance myself from the situation when I go now so that I don't get so mad at each visit.  This has been helping me handle the frustration at the lack of progress, but being dissociated means that I apparently still react later.

Years ago, in my 20s, I saw a GI doctor who did a chest exam as part of the workup.  I was too young and naive at that time to realize that it was inappropriate, and if I remembered who he was now I would want to look into filing a complaint but that was 20 years ago.  Last week's visit was much more subtle, so maybe it's nothing, except that I have been feeling a visceral sense of violation ever since and a dread about ever seeing that doctor again.  So I'm asking for a "gut check" as maybe I'm over-reacting.

Because I'm now working, I needed to get a new neurologist as my old neurologist was up in the suburbs near my house.  They insisted I get a yearly check-up so I called the neurology clinic at the major hospital campus (which happens to be where I work) to find a new one.  They scheduled me with the MS specialist, since I'd already seen him (he is the one who recognized that all of my symptoms where probably due to Sjogren's).  I said I didn't care because I just needed "continuity of care" for my anti-seizure meds.  Well, I went into the office and there was a young guy sitting there in a lab coat along with the oldish doctor.  Blahblahblah talk.  Then he had me lie down on the bed, which I did like a lamb.  He then proceeded to put his hand, with the stethescope, all the way up my shirt from the *bottom*!  The young guy was against the wall (at the end of my feet). Moved hand, moved hand, moved hand, listening to my heartbeat that way.  I was lifeless, just waiting for everything to be over.  After I left, I felt kinda uggie and started thinking...... 

I went to see my famdoc yesterday, and she listened to my heart through my shirt. HUGE difference.  Even if I a doctor wanted skin-to-skin contact, they've usually just gone down a little from the collar.

Now I feel sick to my stomach because I will have to follow up with this guy for.......ever?  I am upset even thinking about it.  My neurologist is THE most important doctor to me following my famdoc, because I worry most about neurological problems (my problems are almost all neurological, even if they are caused by other things, like inflammation, etc.).  Am I over-reacting?  He's the area's specialist for this, a researcher etc. but he gives off a slime vibe and I don't think I want to go back there.

[Linda196]

Auscultation through any material will miss, mask, or mimic subtle sounds like pericardial rub, class 1 murmurs, faint valve sounds and fine crackles in the lungs. Reaching down from a neckline will give access to the upper lobes of the lungs and possible the aortic arch, but not the PMI (point of maximum impact of the heart beat) and usually not good access to the valve areas, which in most women are best heard under the breast folds, and in men approximately 8-10 cm below the nipple line. I'm sorry, but the first "violating" examination is the proper way to do a thorough heart and lung auscultation.

[Friedbrain]

Thank you for your point of view, as I am looking for any feedback and asked for different viewpoints.   I see your point, except that this was a neurologist (and I was there to talk about medication and treatment for seizures) and he was listening above my breasts (so actually reached over them). 

If you are referring to the "first 'violating' examination"....that was a GI doctor who performed a complete breast exam as an OBGYN would do.  i didn't question it at the time, but since my breasts are not near my GI tract, I do stand behind the thinking that it was completely unnecessary and inappropriate.  JMHO.

[Nancy60]

Trust your instincts. Is there another neurologist you can go to?  If you are going to have to go back to this guy, I would call the office manager to discuss this. She will inform him and I would bet he will be extra careful not to do anything that could be misconstrued as molestration.  You can request that a nurse be present during your visit, and if anything should start to happen again speak up and say I'm not comfortable with you doing that. Please do it outside my clothes.  That being said I've had doctors listen to my heart and lungs both ways. If they are listening more closely they will go under your clothes to get rid of possible artifact noise.

But in short, if this doctor is giving off signals of being a creep, your not going to trust or feel comfortable with him, you're better off finding another doctor.

Nancy

[mistyrain]

Friedbrain: You can request that a nurse (female) be present at all times when you get examined for anything - that's the way I see it anyway -- but check my age - I am one of the old fashioned kind!    Oops - just noticed my age doesn't show - 76!

[Linda196]

Sorry, I misunderstood, I thought you said chest exam, not breast exam; two totally different procedures, medically speaking.

[Iris]

I've had doctors do it both ways.. The ones that reached under my blouse were usually older doctors.. I always thought they might have problems hearing, not that younger ones couldn't have hearing loss too, but it's usually more of a first thought with older people.. You said yours was an oldish doctor, maybe his hearing isn't what it used to be and he can't distinguish the difference between the sounds from your lungs and your blouse..

But even if that was the problem if you are uncomfortable you should have someone present during exams or find a new doctor.. We have enough problems without having to worry about something like that..

[irish]

You always have to trust your instincts, but I am a nurse also and I have had this done many times---the doc coming up from the bottom of the blouse. It is hard to get to the skin often by going down from the top as so many blouses/shirts have tight necklines. It might be an old habit he has developed.

And yes, it is not good medical practice to listen to heart sounds or lung sounds through material, but most of the time that is the way it is done. I guess I wou9ld think nothing of it, but you were the patient and you must trust your instincts. Irish

[lolokonoki]

So, I have been on seizure meds for ten years and have not been to a neurologist in ........ten years.  Before I get ten replies about how bad this is( and I am saying this with good hearted linflection in my voice) I know, I know. 

Everyone else is right, if you are uncomfortable, you shouldn't go.  Besides, everytime he listens, your heart is going to race and going to do some funky beats, And he is going to either diagnose you with a heart condition, or send you to another specialist.

So, go to a different neuro, in the interim, get your seizure meds from your GP, and skip the cardiologist. :

Lolo