Ive been reading the Thyroid topics here as well as some sites on the thyroid hormones. Can someone please explain to me in simple terms (cuz I'm just not getting it at all...lol) about why my doc tests for T3 and T4 in addition to the TSH. I just cant seem to grasp the idea of how the thyroid works (some kind of thyroid brain fart I think)!
I just recently had it tested it again as I'm on Levothyroxin and he always orders additional tests in addition to the TSH.
Any good basic information sites that anyone knows of?
Hi Lynnmarie,
If I tried to explain it to you or anyone else, I'd get you and myself so lost, it's much easier for me to post some websites :D.
http://thyroid.about.com/od/gettestedanddiagnosed/a/bloodtests.htm
http://www.medicinenet.com/thyroid_blood_tests/article.htm
http://my.clevelandclinic.org/heart/services/tests/labtests/thyroid.aspx (I'm suprised that these folks have such a high TSH range, but they have some good info)
http://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/thyroid-hormone-tests
Here are a few websites that are pretty helpful.
Take care -
Patze
Hi :)
I think Patze's sites are good. My understanding is that TSH can fluctuate but the T4 and the T3 - especially the freeT4 and T3 is what is actually getting to the cells that need it. T4 converts into T3 (except it sometimes doesn't and the TSH wouldn't reflect that) The thyroid works in a kind of a loop system with other glands.
The sites explain it soooo much better!
Take care - Scottie :)
Thanks Patze and Scottie!
I've read the sites you mentioned Patze and I think I have a little better understanding....I'll keep working on it! It just gets confusing to me about the T3 and T4 and free T3 and free T4...but I think its starting to make a little more sense to my old foggy brain......thanks for the sites Patze....they are good ones!
You're most welcome Lynnmarie, it's tough enough being sick and then having to figure out this mess too. Oh, when you figure it out, please let me know too! :D
Take care -
Patze
Will do Patze.....but don't hold your breath that it will be anytime soon! ;)
lynn
:) :D ;D :) :D ;D :) :D ;D :) :D ;D :) :D ;D :) :D ;D :) :D ;D :) :D ;D :) :D ;D :) :D ;D
From what I've been reading (and I've been reading a lot), the T3 controls metabolism and most thyroid drugs are just T4. The body can convert T4 into T3 but I believe that's why people with thyroid troubles have problems with their weight. Though outside of Armour thyroid replacement, most of the drugs are T4 only. Docs don't like to give drugs with high T3 because it's not good for you. Hyperthyroidism as opposed to hypo.
I'm supposed to get a total thyroidectomy (hopefully soon) because of cancer, so I've been investigating the drugs and what they do, side effects etc., I'm not on any right now, but eventually I will.
Here's my summary on thyroid function -- being a Hashi's veteran.
First there is TRH which is produced by the hypothalmus. This is sent to the anterior pituitary gland where it signals TSH to get produced. TSH is a pituitary hormone NOT a thyroid hormone. TSH is a signal to your thyroid gland to produce thyroid hormones. The thyroid gland produces the T4 hormone which in turn gets converted to T3 hormone -- which is the ACTIVE thyroid hormone. Sometimes this T4 to T3 conversion process is hindered -- often as a result of age, but there could be other reasons...like a selenium deficiency. The level of thyroid hormones (T3 and T4) in the blood affect how much TSH the pituitary should produce. When the levels of T3 and T4 are low, the production of TSH is increased -- if TSH is too high then HYPO-thyroid is suspected. When levels of T3 and T4 are high, then TSH production is decreased -- if TSH is too low then HYPER-thyroid is suspected.
The fact that your doctor has you do complete thyroid testing (TSH, Free T3, Free T4, TPO) means he's a good doctor. The results from these tests are how to monitor and maintain good thyroid levels. Some doctors only monitor TSH and that doesn't even begin to give the complete picture. Some doctors don't bother to monitor TPO -- the thyroid antibodies. However, if someone has high TPO antibodies -- even if their thyroid levels are within range -- or even optimal -- they could still feel horrible because of the antibodies. Having a a high TPO result can also be thought of as a 'selenium deficiency'. So increasing your selenium intake can lower your TPO. Brazil nuts are high in selenium -- so eating a few of these a day are a good way to get extra selenium. If you decide to use a selenium supplement, 200mcg daily should be the upper limit. Selenium can be toxic so you don't want to take too much.
Hope this helps..???..
Best wishes,
Jann
Jann,
Thank you for the great explanation. I have the antibodies for Hashimotos but my TSH is still normal. I get so tired sometimes and wonder if it is Sjogrens or possible fluctuating thyroid. So you are saying that high antibodies can make you feel poorly? Do you know how high??? I have my test results.
Thanks,
Anna
Hi Anna,
As far as TPO levels go --- I've heard some thyroid folk have their level in the thousands...ie; 2100 or something. Mine has never been that high....I don't think my TPO has EVER been above 800-1000 (?? not really sure to tell you the truth. I'd have to dig through old lab reports to really find out.). I've been using LDN therapy [Low Dose Naltrexone] for the past year and at about the three month mark after starting LDN I had a big drop in both my TPO and ANA antibodies. My ANA antibodies are considered "normal" now...but my TPO antibodies are still considered 'high'. I know that I just feel so much better since being on LDN. Is that a result of my antibodies being lower..?? --> Probably. Is it a result of achieving better thyroid function with less THR (thyroid meds) ..??.. Maybe. Is it because I take a lot of supplements...which include fish oil and vitamin D3 --?? -- ~who knows?. It could be for a whole lot of reasons.
TPO is really an 'inflammation marker'....so if you have high TPO it means that there is inflammation going on. I recently had a conversation with Elaine Moore about TPO. Elaine has written several books about thyroid disease, autoimmunity, and recently published a book on LDN. This is what Elaine said about TPO:
QuoteIt's been found, in recent years, that TPO antibodies don't attack or destroy thryoid tissue. TPO antibodies are markers of thyroid inflammation and they're what causes inflammation to persist. Inflammation could be caused by an allergic response, vaccines, sugar, and saturated fats, stress, excess dietary iodine or anything that stimulates your immune system. An example is in people with gluten sensitivity and autoimmune thyroid disease who ingest gluten--they'll see a rise in both TPO and gliadin antibodies.
What level is your TSH to be considered 'normal' -- ??-- Hopefully it's between 1-3. And if it's close to 3...it means you're 'borderline'. My doctor likes to keep my TSH around '1'.
Best wishes,
Jann
PS -- If anyone wants to learn more about LDN therapy here is a link:
http://www.lowdosenaltrexone.org/ (http://www.lowdosenaltrexone.org/)
Thanks again all for the input on this!
Jann...your explanation was very helpful of how the thyroid works in conjunction with the different hormones!
Jann,
Thanks again for your insight into how the thyroid works. I've heard of LDN therapy but have not seen you post on this treatment. That is great that you are feeling better. I, myself, have improved a lot since I was first diagnosed. I, too, take fish oil and Vitamin D3 on recommendation from my physician.
Anna
Hi Anna..
I posted here early on about my LDN adventure....just haven't been back here in awhile and thought I would 'check in' on everyone....saw this thyroid thread....thought I'd share MY understanding of how it all works...yada yada. (BTW - I'm no expert....it's just what I've figured out).
I'm still experimenting with my program / regimen....trying to determine the best approach with my nutrition / supplements / LDN / lifestyle. What I have found is that consistency and patience is key...and I have to say that yoga has contributed quite a bit to my well-being as well. I practice the Anusura 'style'...which is about incorporating Grace into your life.
Best wishes,
Jann