Hello all,
Between the constant fatigue and cognitive issues I'm at the end of my tether at work and have started investigating the possibility of applying for disability.
A little background: male, 55 yrs old, working at a large University in NY for the last 17 years. My struggles started 7-8 years ago but it wasn't until 2013 that I was finally diagnosed with SLE w/secondary Sjogrens. Currently I take a pretty high dose of Adderall to get through the workday then come home and collapse. Besides making me miserable I really feel that the stress of this routine is harming my overall health and making my symptoms worse. I can't remember important details at work and when I go to meetings I generally tune out. It's only because I've been here so long and so much is rote that I'm able to perform at all.
Bottom line: I can't keep this up anymore.
So my question...Reading through the Disabilities Benefits Booklet https://www.ssa.gov/pubs/EN-05-10029.pdf I come across this:
"1. Are you working?
If you're working and your earnings average more than
a certain amount each month, we generally won't consider
you to be disabled."
From a link provided I believe that 'certain amount' is $16,920, here's the link: https://www.ssa.gov/pubs/EN-05-10003.pdf
Am I understanding this correctly? Do I need to be making less than $17k or be unemployed before I should apply for disability? I make significantly more and need to continue to do so to pay for my house + bills etc. This would mean I would need to sell my house right away.
fyi: The other big reason I need to qualify for disability is so I can access my IRA without the stiff early withdrawal penalty.
Any input/advice is welcome.
thanks,
Ig
Information for the Sjogren's Syndrome Foundation's National Patient Conference scheduled for later this month says a disability attorney will give a presentation. It would be worth giving him a call, as many attorneys will give a free initial consultation. Here's the information:
Social Security Disability for Sjögren's
Thomas D. Sutton has been with the Philadelphia
Social Security Disability law firm of Leventhal
Sutton & Gornstein since 1994. He is a member of
the SSF Board of Directors, and a former president
and current board member of the National Orga-
nization of Social Security Claimants' Representa-
tives. Having represented hundreds of claimants
before the federal courts and thousands before the
Social Security Administration, Mr. Sutton will help
attendees understand the often complex workings of
the Social Security Disability system.
http://www.sjogrens.org/files/brochures/NPC2017.pdf
*$16,920 (limit payout by SSA, not related to work income)
For every $2 over the limit, $1 is withheld from benefits.
Just to make it easy on 'me' let's say one was awarded $26,920 ---> $10,000 over the limit of $16,920; therefor of the $10K over max, for every $2 over $1 would be withheld. Or $5,000 withheld/ rest paid for a total payment of $21,920/yr.
My cousin earned her Phd in Social Work @ Columbia. She was able to help with questions for my mother.
Is it possible for you to connect with a graduate student at one of the universities. I suggest this as often trying to follow a phone conversation or forum information can be difficult and you may not be at the point of the dreaded trip down to Social Security Office.
Be aware that Medicare does not begin until 2 yrs after established Disability by SSA. So if approved 3/9/2017... Medicare begins 3/9/2019.
You will need to go over coverage from work to work this out. Or if married look at spousal coverage.
Health Insurance: If you become unemployed, you can use funds from your IRA or 401K to pay for health insurance premiums but only after 12 weeks of continuous unemployment.
Possible re-positioning on other investments for unearned income?
No Limits on Unearned Income
While a disabled (nonblind) person applying for or receiving SSDI cannot earn more than $1,170 per month by working, a person collecting SSDI can have any amount of income from investments, interest, or a spouse's income. When I applied I was told no work.. but that was awhile ago.
* so if one were perhaps able to transfer some skills to at home business under $1,170/mo that would be an option.
Hopefully others can add information. SSA does look at education level, income (for gainful employment options), age for possible retraining.
I will add from personal experience that the effect of having a work routine during the week (that fell to the wayside) and being among peers was of vast benefit. Realized more in later days. I would collapse then and still can collapse now, but without the satisfaction of having done a days productive work.. so there are 'real' trade offs.. and I would love to be back at work.
Ig,
Does the university by any chance provide any private disability? I have found this to be enormously helpful while I apply for SSA disability. The insurer has contracted with a company that helps with, and oversees, my SSA claim. Of course I got turned down on my first attempt and my appeal, so now have to wait for a hearing. Because the case load is so backed up in NJ it will take at least 20 months to get that hearing. If eventually approved the award will be retroactive. I don't think that anyone should try to tackle applying without help from an attorney or company who specializes in this.
Liz
Thanks for the replies.
@sunshine: I've been considering getting over my distrust of lawyers. This is a big decision and complex process and I need all the help I can get.
@quietd: Thanks for the details. It seems like every question leads to 2 more. I didn't know that about Medicare, I think I can get work to fill the gap but I better make sure. The unearned income could be something I could take advantage of as I try to decide whether to sell or rent my house. I get your point about the benefits of having a work routine. There are many mornings where the only thing that gets me out of the house is work. Ideally I could negotiate some sort of ongoing consulting with them, I actually like my job for the most part and would miss it.
@Liz: While trying to find the answer to your question I discovered that the university has a their own disability program that looks a lot more accommodating than SSDI with short term and long term disability options, health insurance coverage, and pay that's based on 60% of my current salary - significantly more than what I would qualify for from SSA. So thanks for that! I plan to meet with the ombudsman to discuss this further.
Thanks again all. I'm shifting my focus to receiving disability from work for now. I guess I should have thought of that first but this is a new thought process for me. I always joked that I wasn't leaving work until 'they took me out in a pine box or I turned 70 whichever came first'. Then as things got worse I thought I would could make it to 62 (the first year of SS benefits), then 59 1/2 (when you can draw from your IRA w/o penalties) and now here I am.
-Ig
In my opinion, the key to disability is documentation. If you have disability coverage through work, this is your first approach. You work with your doctors to take the time off that you need. If you have improvement and can go back to work, great. If not, you're building a series of medical records that show that you can't work. Your employer's disability insurance will typically pay 60-70% of your normal salary. Get a copy of the LTD policy that applies to you - each employer has very specific rules.
You need to be working with doctors who believe you, and support your need for time off. The more evidence in your medical record that shows that you have health problems, the easier it will be to get disability. Social Security and insurers prefer concrete evidence (tests results, a consistent record of you reporting pain and fatigue).
Social Security requires that you can't work, at all. You mention that you can possibly work part time. If that's true, then you don't qualify for Social Security disability. You can also find out how much you would get from Social Security by going to medicare.gov, and finding out what you would be paid in SS retirement benefits. Many people are surprised by how low a number that is, so be sure to check it out.
Ask more questions - I don't want to overwhelm you, but I've been down this path and am willing to help.
So here's my rationale regarding full time disability from work please tell me what you think:
I have become very bad at retaining new info. I forget a lot of important details and when I sit in meetings I find I'm tuning out 90% of the time. I work in IT so there's always a lot of new stuff going on. I can continue to work for a little while because I've been there so many years and am familiar with the old systems but as time goes on I won't be much use to them.
Also I have no energy. I prop myself up with adderall and caffeine to get through the day and even that doesn't work sometime. I feel strongly that I'm doing harm to my future health by trying to continue working.
Winters are too much now for me here in upstate NY and I need to move. There is no way I can learn all the new skills that come with a new job.
Because I've been here 17 years I have historic knowledge so I could stay on part time to help transition someone into my job but after that I don't have anything to offer.
I'm lucky in that I like my job and the people there but I've reached a point where I can't sustain this any more. I guess there's a possibility that some new drug will help enough that I can work again but I'm on my 3rd Rheumy specialist in 4 years and it hasn't happened yet.
Does that sound reasonable?
Thanks for your input, it really helps.
btw...I was encouraged to see 'autoimmune disorders' on the list of conditions that qualify for LTD in the benefits pamphlet.
Hey Ig,
I'm in the IT field also. I was a basket case for the first two months after my symptoms first presented, but luckily I work from home, so I was able to endure it. Was I 100% productive? Not a chance, but I was able to work in bursts and get key things completed, and nap / crash as needed. Maybe that's an option other than full disability?
Hi Pete, Interesting idea thanks. Apparently the first step of this process is 'accommodation' where we meet and try to find a way to accommodate the disability so I can keep working. If they're willing to be flexible its worth a try, it depends how far they're willing to go. Like you I can get a lot done remotely.
If you don't mind me asking...Has your employment status changed? I.e. are you still considered fulltime? Was it difficult to negotiate these concessions?
If I could hang on a few more years it would be helpful financially.
ignatz, have you thought apply applying for SSI disability while you are out on your private disability? It might buy you some time. I hope it works for you. Make sure you have good medical documentation.
Hello,
I was only a year older than you when I and my body said no more. I had worked as a teacher for 15 years. I loved my job, but each year there were more things to learn as goes with education. I use to thrive on it, but that ended with Sjogrens, Fibromyalgia, and lupus.
I was taking Modafinal to get through the day, and hurting all over. I also at the very end could not open up a students file and concentrate.
I also crashed when I got home, and so nervous wondering how we could survive only on social security disability, and a smaller school pension.
The wonderful people on here were so supportive. The decision was made when I went in one day not long after the new year had started, and I was feeling so closed in, tired, and just couldn't think.
I got through that day, and collapsed at home. I told my husband that was my last day no matter what happened.
It's been 7 years now, and we live on so much less, but we are happy.
I will share more of my story as I can. I am sorry you have to go through this, but we do understand. I now have learned to enjoy simple things. (at least most of the time).
There is more I can share of my experience with getting my disability on the first try with no lawyer.
susanep
Thanks for sharing Susan, I'm glad you've found some peace. I've started training myself to get by on less money. I'm also actively building my medical 'resume' by making sure all my symptoms are documented by my rheumy as Warmwaters suggests. Fortunately in this digital era all my tests are saved online.
I talked to my supervisor Friday and let her know I was struggling and considering disability. She's supportive, said 'whatever you need to do for your health' so that's good.
I did the calculations and my private LTD is 2x what SSI would pay per month. Also my impression is that SSI is a bit more stringent and difficult to get approved. For those reasons I'll focus on just the private LTD.
Oh yes and some good news...While talking to the ombudsman about this I discovered that because of my age and the length of time I've been working the university will continue to provide my health insurance for life. Excellent.
You should talk to your employer about making a reasonable accommodation for you under the Americans With Disabilities Act. The employer is obligated to make an accommodation if it does place an undue burden on the employer. Also, if it would help to work part-time rather than full-time, you may be able to qualify for Family Medical Leave. It can be taken intermittently.
If you do get LTD approved, be aware that at some point the LTD insurer will ask you to apply for Social Security. They do this to get an "offset". Let's say your LTD will pay you $60K a year. And Social Security will pay you $25K a year.
If you are approved for Social Security, the LTD insurer will reduce your payments by the $25K you are getting from Social Security. So now you will get $25K from SS and $35K from the insurer. You'll still get $60K.
If you are not approved for Social Security, you'll still get your $60K from the insurer.
Most people don't know this (this insurance stuff is hard!!!) and are surprised when it happens.
Quote from: ignatz on March 18, 2017, 11:14:05 AM
Thanks for sharing Susan, I'm glad you've found some peace. I've started training myself to get by on less money. I'm also actively building my medical 'resume' by making sure all my symptoms are documented by my rheumy as Warmwaters suggests. Fortunately in this digital era all my tests are saved online.
I talked to my supervisor Friday and let her know I was struggling and considering disability. She's supportive, said 'whatever you need to do for your health' so that's good.
I did the calculations and my private LTD is 2x what SSI would pay per month. Also my impression is that SSI is a bit more stringent and difficult to get approved. For those reasons I'll focus on just the private LTD.
Oh yes and some good news...While talking to the ombudsman about this I discovered that because of my age and the length of time I've been working the university will continue to provide my health insurance for life. Excellent.
Thanks Warm, I did hear about that in my consult with HR. As long as I can count on the same amount I should be ok. It won't be $60k though, I wish. ;D
Williak: Thanks. They mentioned short term disability but they didn't say it could be taken intermittently, or maybe I didn't understand them. That could be very useful as I try to get by for a bit longer.
It looks like Spring is finally arriving ('bout time!) and I should be able to start Cellcept in another 2 or 3 weeks, here's hoping that I can bounce back from this.
-Ig
Also be aware that you need to wait 5 months after you quit work before you can apply for your disability. Also, in 2 years you then qualify for the social security and at your age you will be docked in what your monthly amount will be. I was 60 when I had to quit work. My monthly amount was figured on this age. So, I really got a rude surprise when I found out how much I was going to get.
It was so much less than what I would have gotten if I had been able to work until I was 62 or 65. It might be that some of the rules have changed regarding the whole process.
Also, make sure that you document everything you can think of. Try to think back to your health deterioration over the years or any significant health event that took place that could be attributed to Sjogrens that affected your quality of life. Maybe had to take off work for long periods of time, etc.
The activities of daily living are important when describing your everyday abilities. It sounds as though you have concentration problems and that is the word that you should use. You need to make sure to use language that leaves no doubt as to how this disease has affected you. If you have some condition that occurs periodically put it in the documentation. The health issues don't have to occur every day or or many times a day. If something occurs that interferes with your life, even if it is every couple of weeks or less, document it because it is significant. It was not occurring before your became ill. Good luck to you. Irish
Hi
I'm learning the hard way...I'm too tired and fogged to get this right.
I had a pay equity problem which I now can't address because I took itermittent FMLA, followed by a 3 month leave which ran into personal leave (after I'd used up my 12 weeks FMLA). Your rights change on personal leave; your job position is not protected. My employer changed my job. Now I have to try for LTD because if something happened I have no benefits and no FMLA for a year, and if I go back, with or without LTD, I'll be returning to whatever they assign me and w no rights regarding pay.
You might think I just stumbled in without trying to understand the implications, but I looked into everything as well as I could, and talked to a dozen people, including a SSDI attorney.
I just spoke with the LTD person. She asked if it wasn't the medicine that was making me tired or off balance, or the fact that I was sitting around at home that made me weak and sob. (I'm exercising everyday.) Maybe the xylitol gum was giving me cavities?
I'm stressed out and so broken down by all this.
Sad to say, the LTD company is decidedly not your friend. They will look for reasons why your health issues are not covered by the policy. They will ask "How are you today?" and if you say "Fine", this turns into a note in your record that the patient says she is fine.
You need to keep working with your doctors, so that your health issues are on the records. Many LTD companies pay out for about 2 years, and then claim you can go back to work.
So, do what you can to take care of yourself. Though it feels very personal, this is just a sick game they play with most. It's very hard to accept how awful these companies can be.