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This is an awful topic but I feel like I need somebody who is in my shoes to talk to. I have SJS, Lupus, RA, and now maybe Scleroderma. My doc says definite mix of connective tissue disorder. Things with my disease are progessing very fast, I am having organ damage, loss of feeling in my extermities, loss of vision,loss of my hair,  loss of my mind (that's the hardest). I am sooo tired. I wake up tired, I go to bed at 5:00 PM and usually stay in bed all night. I hurt really badly-- it is difficult for me to walk, to sit long. I have absolutely no tears or spit and even maxing out my Saligen, I still have to soak my food in water, gravy, and something creamy.I'm not allowed to wear contacts at all and when I do, I often can not get them out without tearing my eye or stressing it (I have to soak my eyes for an hour to even rehydrate the lens enough to not tear-- that's on top of using drops all night)!

I am a full-time teacher with many out of school obligations. It kills me. I can't do it and this provides the most sadness. I rarely cook dinner and when I do, I make my husband's plate and then just go upstairs. i eat only two meals a day.

I should probably apply for disability-- that might help take some stress off my life-- and then I could just work as I want, either part-time or volunteer.

But I feel like this sudden downfall with my body is a sign that I need to evaluate what is important in my life-- what is living and what is not living. I know that people are very opposed to suicide. I am not. One of my student's father committed suicide after suffering terribly with esophogeal cancer. It was right before her graduation and all people could say was how selfish this man was-- how dare he.  Except me. I was proud for him, sad for him, knew him and how he felt. I'll admit that I was jealous of him and his strength and courage.

I ordered the book "The Final Exit." It didn't really tell me anything that I didn't already know, but I felt so much peace being able to hear other people's questions and stories. It gave me hope-- which is something I have't had in awhile.

I'd appreciate knowing how you feel generally about this-- yes or no.  Would you ever consider it? Do you know anybody who was successful and what did they do?  Anybody who tried and failed, but had a reconsideration afterwards?

Don't considerate this a negative, complaining looking for attention inquiry, but instead a post where we can share without judgement. Thx!

Hi Kwolfsheimer,

I understand completely. I also agree people should have those choices for themselves and even to be assisted by a doctor if possible.

I also have had a suicide (completely understandable) in my family and KNOW firsthand, the pain and anguish that to this day continues, it has been 17 years. So while I never want to be so bad that I can't dig my way out and yet I know if I am - I want that option. The only thing that stops me - and it completely stops me- is what it does to those you love and who love you. It is not just a husband or a kid or a grandchild or the neighbor... it is the whole community who grieves. Your a teacher, so the whole school would be effected. It effects everyone. Yes, I agree that father may have had a good reason to be despondent but he was incredibly selfish to do this right before his daughters graduation. She is a kids for crying out loud... we all have to make better choices and decisions.

It is best I think to have a living will, make sure your dr's have it, the hosp, your husband, who ever is in charge and be proactive in your care. Let it be known that when your not able to be proactive, what YOU want. BE VERY CLEAR ON THIS>

Get a second (third or forth) opinion about your diagnosis and treatment. Make sure you are getting everything you can for help. Get an antidepressant - yes, you need one, we all do. If you are on one, it is not enough.

You do have choices, just know you are not the only one to bear any result. Talk to your husband, maybe he could help with more. Maybe you SHOULD file for disability... then you can do things that you love when you feel up to it. If it is teaching, there are many things you can do even when on disability.

You have many options still and yet, yes, I understand - completely. Sending you a hug and prayers up high to hold you gently through a tough time, that WILL get better.

Quit wearing contacts... :)

Gayle

interesting timing- not sure where you are situated on this turning globe but Canada just Friday legalized  doctor assisted suicide.

I think we all like to have  some control in what feels like an out of control situation. I VERY much do.

I also don't know that I would choose this option- but I really feel that it should be my choice to die as I see fit.I do not want to endure years of painful suffering when no quality of life could ever be recovered.

I do think  that you can do some things to make you feel you have more control of your life now.

Could you work part time?  seek more aggressive treatment if you feel the risks outweight how you are doing emotionally and physically right now?

OK,
first let me be the first to tell you that I may not be the one to talk to.  But I hear your pain and I feel your anguish.  Yes, I have been there.  Many of us have. 
It is a difficult subject to talk about, but I applaud you for speaking out.

Personally, I suffer from many, many health issues.  And don't think that I believe any of this is easy.  Have I thought about how much easier it would be to not have all this and be away from here.  Certainly, it has crossed my mind.  I have felt like a burden to my family, as this is not what they signed on for.  Who wants a wife that can't hardly walk, can't cook, is tied to an oxygen bottle.  Who  wants a mother that drags around a tank, can't shop , don't like to get dressed up to go to a function.  One that falls asleep in a conversation.  One that can't help you with your newborn baby.  Yes, I know what it feels like.  we mostly all do. 

The thing about us are we are right there with you.  And we are here to try and pick you up out of the place that you have found yourself in.  And , it can't be done with a pick yourself up and wipe yourself off attitude that so many outsiders would offer.

We Got you!! We want you to spill your most tender thoughts, your most deep inhibitions that you would not talk to others about.  We are a most diverse group.  And I for on cannot type worth a darn..

There are all different things that pull us thru, humor, tears,  yes dry tears., prayer, a lot of prayer and the ability to talk to each other, to  turn to someone else. 

I get why you thought it was a release for the father that committed his life away to death.  I had an uncle that almost did kill himself.  And another one that many years later did.  Brothers.  Why did one change his mind and the other not?
The one that did not was in terrible pain.  Lung and Bone Cancer.  So many years ago that there was very little that anyone could or would do.  I was 16.  I am now 53.

I remember his story so well. like yesterday.  One of my most important lessons in life I have ever had.  Uncle Willard!  How I loved him. Smart and Fun.  His fingers gnarled with arthritis so badly that he had to drink coffee from a saucer that his wife placed between his bent and raggedly fingers.  All of my Daddy's family had those fingers.  Bent over crippled. 

Uncle Willard told my Father and I that he was racked with pain.  He had thought he just couldn't go on any longer.  He waited until his family had all left for the afternoon, begging off from being too tired,  He watched his wife, two daughters and four grandchildren..one boy and three girls drive away.  He coughed and hacked for a while and went to his bedroom where he removed his gun.  As he loaded it, he thought of how it was his fathers gun, handed to him the oldest boy of 12 kids, he said it crossed his mind, ha, how lucky he was to be the oldest boy, to get this treasured gun, the only one the family had and now it would get to go to his only grandson.  Ohhh, but wait,  would he want this gun that killed his grandfather?  They are so close!  No, he wouldn't.  He was 12 and would know the significance.  And what type of example was he setting for him and the other granddaughters?  That when the going got too tough to just quit, like he was doing.  He held the gun and began to cry.  His suffering was more than he can take.  But the thought of letting his family down like that was more painful.  And the treasured gun would become hated and cast away.  A poor thought for something his father had loved so much, that had fed their family of 14.  It would be a disrespect to his family and his father. 
Now that was his story, not mine.  It was something that stuck with me, of how I can be a stepping stone in someones life, instead of a stumbling block.  I did not know then I would have this illness all these years later.  But it has cradled me thru many a night and day.

see next post

Now, my Uncle Wade,  much younger .  The baby of the family.  Loved being around him.He made me laugh.  Not too much older than myself.  Married, 2 kids, Great Job, Money, Drinking, Loss of Job, Loss of Wife, Loss of kids.  His Drinking was his downfall>  Bless His Heart!  He never heard his older brothers' story, as we were asked to keep it a secret.  Uncle Willard did not want others to know. 

All his brothers and sisters reached out to him, gave him places to live, got him jobs, bought him vehicles, but they couldn't give him back his job or wife or family or his self-respectl  They had no idea he was considering thisl  He died alone in a hotel room.  The family was frantically trying to find him when he didn't show up home.  He paid for 2 nights and laid there alone.  He had no one left for him to set an example for and none to set.  He thought he had nothing to live for.  But his wife felt so guilty she drank herself into oblivion and theb to death.  His children were lost,  they turned to liquor and pills and one eventually got himself together and became a minister.  To help stop others from this pain. 

Now I see why you feel like this father you know had courage.  He was in pain and was out of his mind in turmoil.  But what did he leave his daughter?  His family?   Did he lift her up with his death?  I don't know> I can't say!    I am only giving you something else to think of while you are thinking and reading along these lines.  Will you give your students a gift for life in taking your own.  Will you show them how to be strong and courageous? 

I for one, certainly hope you stay around and join us in helping others.  Your story can save many lives.  When you are at the bottom, you can't fall any further.  Let us help you to find the ladder out of there.  We hurt, we hurt with you.  We love and we love you!

I am certainly not judging you, for that is not my job!  My job is to offer you hope.  I will Pray that you stay!    ~sass~

Kwolfsheimer,

I'm glad that you know we can bring up any topic to discussion here, with no judgement.  That said, I'm sorry to hear that you're struggling so with your health, and that your issues have become much worse lately.

I think you're right; from time to time we need to assess what's important to us and what is living to us.  Of course, we all have things we have control over and those that we have no control over. 
Unfortunately, with our illnesses, it seems that's a bit out of our control somewhat.  I try to look at what I CAN still do in spite of things, and now that I am no longer working, it gives me more time to do what I feel like when I feel like doing it.  This is a huge positive to my emotional and physical health.

I think you still have quite a few options under your control!  If I remember correctly, you're not just a teacher, but a professor and it's a rather overwhelming position.  Not that teachers aren't wonderful, but I seem to remember you are in a high-stress position. Please correct me if I'm wrong. :)

I know you must love teaching, but as you say, if you aren't able to enjoy life while still doing it, perhaps it's time to quit and file for disability.  Or perhaps there is a teaching position part time that would help.  It sounds as if it's really time to make a change in regard to your work, first of all.  That's just my take on it.

Yes, in answer to your question; I have known someone who took their own life, my oldest sister.  Please understand that my experience was life-changing for me and my entire family.

She was married and had 3 young children, and had dealt with depression for years.  She shot herself one morning after her teacher-husband had gone to school.  She was a beautiful, intelligent woman, a registered nurse.  She left us all wondering and always grieving.  Her children grew up with no mother, we got older without our sibling, and our parents never recovered. 

I know mine is an extreme experience and you're talking about people who are very ill physically and see no other choice.  I would ask that you please look at all your choices; you really have a lot to give as a person whether you are teaching or not and I'm guessing your husband would prefer to see you feeling more alive on a daily basis. 

Please know that you can share anything here with us, we care and we will listen. 
Melinda

I do not oppose suicide as a means to end extreme suffering. I wish assisted suicide was not illegal. I've contemplated it. I will do it when I'm older, if things get too awful with no hope of relief. I have Ankylosing Spondylitis, inflammatory arthritis that mainly affects the spine, but I'm one of the lucky ones who has pain in nearly every joint in my body. It also causes enthesitis, inflammation where tendons & ligaments meet bone. I've suffered from severe carpal tunnel in both wrists, ulnar nerve compression in both arms from golfer's elbow, Achilles tendinitis, plantar fasciitis, etc, etc. I also have Fibromyalgia, some form of dysautonomia that makes me sweat buckets when my body is under any kind of stress & unable to regulate my temperature, inverse psoriasis which is horrifically painful, chronic migraines due to a Chiari malformation(brain herniates into my spinal canal & screws up cerebrospinal fluid pressure), & the list goes on.

I went from crazy busy, driven OCD supermom to being mostly housebound. I have 3 kids who all have special needs due to prenatal drug use by their birth mothers & my bio kid has Aspergers. They exhausted me before my AS took off running & I developed all these other problems. Now I'm just thankful my husband's work has allowed him to work almost exclusively from home in order to help me, but I'm tired of sleeping in his office. I want my bedroom back. I can't take decent naps because he's on conference calls all the time.

It's been so hard to lose the ability to do all I did. I landscaped, gardened, & was fixing up my house before I gt so sick. My yard that I broke my back(literally) landscaping, is completely overgrown & a giant mess. My house is a mess & it drives me nuts! I was an OCD neat freak. This disease has taken so much from me, robbed me of the ability to be a good mom to my kids.  But a broken, housebound mom is better than no mom. I hang in there for them & for my husband. If it weren't for them, I'd not be here. They keep me going. I love my family. & I could not do that to them. But when my kids are grown, if this disease keeps progressing so quickly, if I'm so miserable I can't stand living, I won't any more. I will OD on my pain meds & muscle relaxers.

Hello kwolfsheimer,

It is understandable the great pain that drives someone to suicide.  I hold no judgment.  But I have done a lot of reading on metaphysical subjects.  Very well known mediums who claim to communicate with souls that have passed over, write repeatedly that a person who takes their life regrets it.

My own personal belief is that there are a few things in life that are fated.  These include the day we are born and the day we are meant to leave.  Suicide interrupts the blueprint.  This seems risky on a whole lot of levels. 

If you are deteriorating rapidly and the diseases are affecting your organs, you may not need to do anything proactively.  In your advanced health directive explicitly state you want no extraordinary measures to prolong your life.  You let nature takes its course which is not suicide.  If you do not have a health directive, it would be a good idea to establish one now.


   

Kwolfsheimer, I'm so sorry you are suffering so. I would like to echo the advice to get your depression treated effectively. It often takes many tries of different medications to find what works best for you. And do get yourself an electric wheelchair or scooter. It will make a world of difference for you. And no, it isn't "giving up." The only thing walking is good for is getting from point "A" to point "B." If you are too exhausted or in too much pain when you get to Point "B" to do what you intended to do, or to remember what you intended to do, it is time to start using wheels. You can see an occupational therapist about ways to compensate for a missing mind. I lost mine 20 years ago, and have come to realize that the brain damage I suffered at birth was far more serious than anyone realized. My ability to form memories is greatly damaged, but I have decided that my spiritual self is doing the remembering for me, and I'll be able to know then. In the meantime, I have found that an absent mind is a great exercise program! And it often leads to amusing situations. I refuse to be embarrassed about any of my disabilities, or to feel inferior because of them.

I truly can't imagine the burden you are carrying. Unfortunately, this society does not value people with disabilities and illnesses, which is tragic. Many temporarily able-bodied people think, "I could never live like that. If I couldn't do [fill in the blank] I would not want to live." Well, when the loss hits, you learn to find new things that give you joy. I know one man who was a professional musician who went deaf. He became an audiologist and worked to help others with hearing loss. He is always laughing.  In the end, it isn't what you do that counts, it is who you are.

You are a very important person to a large number of people. Your family: what I remember of my parents is their character, how they dealt with having a child with disabilities, losing another child at birth, aging parents, and many other challenges. They found a way to find the joy (for the most part -- my mother refuses resolutely to ever treat her hereditary depression) and grow as people. The influence of my adopted grandmas was wonderful advice and memories they shared, and conversations that I would never have been able to have with my parents. My friends with disabilities constantly amaze me with their insight, advocacy, creativity and laughter. We share some tears as well, and grief as our abilities diminish with aging and the progression of our assorted conditions. Your students look up to you as a person with information and wisdom and insight and advice.It isn't what you DO with others; it is who you are. You can be sure that they see the strain on you, as do your coworkers and friends and family.

It sounds like the best expression of your wisdom now is to quit and go on disability. After you have had some time to recover your bearings, and get more rest, you'll see your life differently. You'll see new opportunities that you can't see in your current exhaustion.

You are so important to so many others; you teach in so many ways, and reach so many people. You have immense worth, and I hope you don't decide to end your life without getting all the help you can and spending some quality time with others with serious disabilities.

I do understand some suicides. My Grandma June killed herself as an elderly woman when she developed an untreatable disease that caused massive pain that could not be controlled. She truly had reached the end of the road, and her decision made perfect sense. There was no future for her that was not pure agony.

It doesn't sound like you are there yet. I like the advice of Dr. Phil. He says of divorce, you have to earn your way there. You have to seek counseling, to do everything you can to save the marriage. I believe that the same is true of ending your life. You have to earn your way there, and it looks like you still have options.

Hang in there! Hugs, Sharon

Dear Kwolfsheimer,

Wow.  I thought for some time before beginning my reply.  Please understand that this comes from my heart, from my own personal experience.  It is not meant to be a judgement of you or anyone else. 

I believe that all life has value.  I believe that your life has value, because you were born.

My only sibling committed suicide thirty years ago.  He was brilliant, well respected in a highly technical field of research, had two beautiful little children and a lovely wife.  He was my big brother.  One day, while staying at a friend's home, he locked himself in the garage and started his car.  He laid down on the concrete floor with his head near the exhaust, crossed his arms and died.  During that time, a telephone call came in for him.  His friend's wife thought that my brother was working on his car, so she just took a message.  She has never gotten over that.  My family never got over it.  It literally took my mother's life, she was so grief stricken.

All life has value.  I value your life.

I'm so sorry, CareBear. What a huge loss! But how much pain your brother must have been it to do that. And how sad that he didn't seek help for it. Hugs, Sharon

Thank you Sharon for your kind comment.  I didn't mean to hijack Kwolfsheimer's thread, but as you can tell, it remains a highly emotional issue for me.   Unfortunately this happened in a time when mental health was not taken very seriously. 

k, I applaud your ability to tell us how you are feeling. It must have been hard to share this as it is a very private thing.

I have considered the "s" word and I would not hesitate to say that anyone who has not had at least a fleeting thought of suicide is probabaly lying to themself and to others. No one has a life that is without suffering and most of us get up against the wall at times--this is the human condition.

I look at this from a different perspective. First of all, I have never, and probably never will, thought that this is a sin, althought doesn't seem to be up there with one's proudest moments. My thinking comes from working as a nurse with patients in all sorts of pain and anguish.  I also worked with a lot of hospice patients and this sure affected my thinking on death specifically and in general.

I have to say that being in pain is not what any of us want. The big thing is to get the best pain control possible by finding good people in pain clinics who can work with you. The second thing is to accept what is happening to your body. Is it what you want?? No way! Will it kill you?? Probably, but I have learned that the human spirit is so strong that it can learn to accept and live with many limitations and still be of intrinic value in this life.

Will you be setting the world on fire? No! But, your body is but one part of what makes "you". You have a mind and a spirit and these are what is important in this life. It is almost unimaginable what a person can do with both a mind and spirit. You may not be able to do much for your family, but the most important thing you can do is to be there to give love, understanding and support.

These 3 things are so important to adults and very important to our kids of any age. The thing I learned working with hospice is that people want to die when they hurt, and when the hurt isn't as bad they lose that urge. Human life is very precious and fragile and people need to be around as long as possible to help with the continuation of the maturing and "finishing" of their famly.

I can't tell you how heartwarming and spiritual it is to see broken relationships healed when people are in hospice. If they had commmitted suicide this never would have happened. We all need to have these moments in our lives on the way to dying. Let nothing ruin our relationships with others of importance. If "we" do what "we" want and commit suicide we have prevented natures masterpiece---the intertwinning of souls with resultant peace.

The most horrible death I have ever seen was not a suicide, but it might as well have been. I took care of a 30+ year old Japanese bride (army wife) with a small child. She had terminal breast cancer. Her in-laws had the child. Her husband had divorced her. Her father in Japan had disowned her because she had married outside her race and left her home land. She knew very few people and could not speak much English.

The Methodist minister from that town knew of her and would visit. He spoke of her aloneness.
She suffered mentally(beyond belief) and physically because there was no hospice in those days in the US. This girl had a broken spirit and so did her relatives. It has stuck with me all these years as being one of the most horrible ways to die. The fear on her face was terrible.

Page 2 coming up Irish

I have had suicide occur in my family and it is so painful. the person is gone and it only leaves heartaches for those that loved them.

Why didn't I love them enough?

Why did they want to leave those that loved them?

How could I have helped them more?

Am I partly to blame because I couldn't be there when they needed me?

Why is their pain so great, that they want to leave?

I have asked these questions and more. If assisted suicide is legalized, I think these and more questions should be answered by the person requesting assistance.

I have lost two brothers, neice, nephew, and an uncle to suicide.

The emotional impact of a parent commiting suicide seems to me to be unacceptable. I would not want my children to remember that. I would not want my husband or my friends to have to deal with it either.

But, it seems that you have a lot of options. As you shared your information I could see a very tired, depressed, stressed out, bitter, angry and sick woman. You are exhausted from your illness, the medical visits, trying to look like a mother and a wife and trying to hold down a job.

The answer!!! Quit the job and get your emotional self taken care of and some of the physical things will most likely improve. Most of us are too proud to accept the fact that our stress and overwork will kill us off. I would guess that you need to put your medical treatment first and get some heavy duty meds to stop the assault on your body.

I am going to be so bold as to say that if you don't quit work you will not have to commit suicide as you will drop dead in your tracks. Out bodies are not made for this kind of punishment. If you haven't seen a psychiatrist I would fast track to one asap. It helps a lot to have treatment for a depression as deep as yours.

I don't know if you realize it or not, but a depression with lots of stress and lack of sleep plus pain can make us act and look crazy. Memory loss gets bad and our behavior gets goofy also. One of the symptoms of lupus is depression and getting treatment helps!

I am also going to add that part of depression and psychiatric issues associated with autoiimmune disease is the inability to make sound decisions. Stop and smell the roses. Live cheap. Get your hubby and family on board with a change in lifestyle and more fun. Find a cheaper way to fix meals and have the kids help. Your fatigue is overwhelming because you are trying to wear many different hats and you are not taking care of yourself. Add the pain and wow, you are ready to implode.

Get yourself more healthy and then you can sub or even find a new job that is fulfilling. Your life is not over--you just think it is. Do not be afraid to make a decision that could bring you more joy than you thought possible. Bless you and be strong. You can do it girl. Hugs IRish

I posted a fairly long post and now it's lost in space.  Tomorrow will re-do.

Lucy, I'll read it. I am always lost in space. Irish ;D

Me, too, Lucy.  ;)  Lost in space that is. 

Irish, again you've given so much wisdom. I've witnessed the pain of suicide in my family and in the last few years also watched my father-in-law and then my mother die from terminal illness, with hospice involved.

It gave me a new perspective on dying and how to do it well, as odd as that sounds. As you say, there is time to mend relationships, truely talk from the heart, and show love and care.  They both passed peacefully with family and loved ones surrounding them. 

Season, I'm sorry your family has seen so much heartache.  Only one who's been through this has some inkling of what that's like. 
I found out when my mother was an old lady that her father (my grandfather) also killed himself by hanging.  I found this out by my curiosity digging into genealogy; as they say, you may find things you don't want to know sometimes when you go looking.  He was buried on her 16th birthday.  There was more ugliness to the story and so I began to understand why my mother was "the way she was." 

We really can share anything here.  I realize that so many of us have dealt with suicide in our lives, and it's certainly not easy to deal with.  It changes us forever.   
Bless you all for being here and being such a source of support for us all.

I am so sorry that you are feeling so badly.  I am here for you. 

I am in similar shoes, recently diagnosed with this illness that I have had a lifetime and have been in an exhausting, life-altering flare for over three months.  My husband is in complete denial and has been very cruel and full of spite toward me regarding my illness.  I knew, the second that I was diagnosed with this disease, that my marriage would not survive this obstacle.  Things have not been good.  I haven't had a good day in weeks. 

Occasionally, something wonderful will happen, something so wonderful that one of my two daughters says or does that gives me such intense joy that my whole day or week of suffering was worth that one precious moment. 

I must carry on for my two little girls.  You must identify who it is you must carry on for, too, be it your husband, or children, or sister, or mother, or beloved pet.  Find someone who gives you some sliver of intense joy and live for them.  We must have hope that perhaps around the next corner is something better, maybe a better drug treatment.  What disease modifying medications are you taking?  Is there something else you can try?  Just glancing at your signature, I didn't notice any drugs that are targeting toward your diseases.  Sorry if I didnt catch it

I know I am hanging on because someone is going to figure put how to regenerate or implant stem cells to restore lost salivary gland/tear gland function!  I'm going to be there when they do.  I'm saving up right now...:)

I totally agree that you need to take care of yourself and stop working!!  No more, stop right now!! :p 

When I talked with my therapist about the possibility of suicide down the road for me, this is what she told me, echoing the sentiment of others here, "it is not the severely depressed or anxious or disturbed that I have the hardest time treating.  It is those whose parents have killed themselves.  They never stop wondering why they weren't good enough or what did they did wrong.  It destroys them."

Anyway, I just want you to know that I deeply care about you and what you are going through.  I am here for you.  Please stick around the board so that we may talk with you.  I have had some dark days myself these past few months and even took some time for inpatient care due to depression and thoughts of suicide.  Big warm hug!!!!

Thank you for your bravery in starting this post.
My Mom was terminal with pulmonary fibrosis as a complication of SJS.  She lasted 7 years with it due to her lovely spirit.   She gave so much inspiration to those on her PF message board and was the 'queen' that everyone loved.   She touched so many lives as she got weaker and though they were all terminal I saw how she spread love.   

In her six months of hospice I helped take care of her and watched her struggle.  I was with her as she lost abilities.   I remember fondly her insisting to be rolled in her wheel chair to the refrigerator so she could look in there and tell me what to prepare for her husband's supper.
How she would ask for a knife to cut a piece of celery for his salad.   

Her dying process taught ME that no matter how small the act of love she would do for someone was worth, for her, still being here and in their presence.   Her choices taught me how to love even more fiercely in the face of fear.   I miss her so much that for awhile I thought I couldn't live without her...but her life and death showed me how great love is and how we all teach each other and are connected by our mortality.

I wish for you to, as I did, start taking an anti-depressant to help with serotonin levels and to cut way back on working.   Adjust YOUR LIFE to this new reality.   Show those that love you how to adapt to changing circumstances.   It's amazing how WE ALL learn from each other.

Sometimes our minds can become quite turbulent. I'm sorry that you are feeling such lack in your life that you are contemplating suicide. My heart breaks.

I will say, that my ex-husband had drug and alcohol issues. He was incredibly smart, and very loving (when he wasn't drunk). He was a good person within the depths of his soul - the place the world couldn't get to him. But his flesh took over and he couldn't resist the darkness of this world.  He died suddenly of overdose, in his mother's home. She has now become very ill in both her mind and body. My youngest son spent this father's day at his grave.

I wish he would have gotten some mental health support. I wish his mother the same now. Our minds are so fragile -but we focus so much on what makes us mobile and active, so we take better care of that. Our minds are the motherboard for all of it, I feel like if we help that part first, the body will follow.

You sound like you have many obligations - with many people depending on you. It also sounds like you have much knowledge to share. Are you able to take time off, maybe write a book to share what you have gained? There is software that converts your voice to written word. Even the plight you are in now, is worth something to others. YOU are worth something.

You sound incredible, so does your husband. It makes me feel good to know that there are people like you - with such a sense of family, responsibility, and love in this world that shatters so many people.

This emotional thread has me crying.  I cannot judge.  But would beg someone to not consider suicide.  I spent a lot of time with my mother who had terminal cancer.  For two years, she tried to extend her life as much as she possibly could.  She knew that for those two years the treatments she was doing would not cure her.  In fact, she knew that the side effects would be difficult.  But she also knew that she could not try them because without them, she would have only lived 6 months.  During that time, I called her cancer a blessing.  Had she died in her sleep of a heart attack or something quick, I would have lost out on all of that time with her.  Her diagnosis gave me the drive to stay by her side for doctors' appointments, long car rides for treatments, etc.  We spent so much blessed time together.  We told so many stories and relived my childhood, her childhood, and heard so much family history.  Two days before she passed, she lost her ability to speak.   But she was still communicating with me with her eyes.  Hearing "I love you" just by the softness in the eyes and the blinking when I would tell her became the strongest form of the words that I will ever experience.  I live with no regrets on spending that time with her.  And even though I know I seen her become weak and so fragile, I remember her as strong and full of life.

What I take from that is that no matter how bad my health gets, I will always cherish moments with my loved ones. 

I feel so much pain in my heart when I know that there are people who are so ill and with no family surrounding them.  At some point in my life, I hope that I can retire from my job and volunteer or work part time in just visiting with people who need just someone to talk to so they do not feel so lonely.  I don't have the energy to do it now while I work full time but that is my goal.

Find a way to share your history.  If you don't have anyone to sit and talk to, write it or record it.  When you reflect, I think somehow, you just don't feel as lonely.  Thank you for having courage to bring this topic forth.

This thread becomes more awesome as it progresses. God Bless you wonderful people. Irish

I have not been personally touched by suicide, but my husband is heavily involved in this subject professionally. I have never been opposed to suicide when someone is suffering from a chronic illness - I understand the dilemma of quality of life vs. quantity.

I am so sorry you are in so much pain. I wish I had good advice to offer, but since I don't, I'll just offer my hugs and support.

Wow! Well first, thank you for the posts. I am not there yet-- I know that the "word" suicide evokes strong emotion in people. I am not there-- but the fact that I can talk about it, the fact that I crossed the threshold and bought a book about it (one might have thought that I was sneaking pornography in the house), tells me that either I am not dealing with this disease very well or that I have lost hope. I know that the second is not true; there are things everyday that give me a sense of hope and purpose. I just "need to know."

I want life to be something I choose-- not something I accept because I have no choice. I want to be prepared. And that's something I'm not good at. I am good at preparing for everyone else but not for myself. I've had a good many friends die of cancer or other diseases and they suffered nobly up to the end. I have also had quite a few friends who had terminal diseases and committed suicide. And I listened to people just defame them as "cowards","selfish."  It was as if all their life disappeared and that's all that they became-- "suicide."

But I totally get them.  Anybody who has ever thought about or attempted suicide knows that it is no "easy way out." It takes resolve and a determination. Nobody really wants to die-- to leave their family behind.

Irish-- I appreciate the advice. I need to think about quitting my job. I probably have one more year before I can do that. I am not worried about now-- I am worried about later, when I don't have things in my life to motivate me. I'm 44 in a few weeks, and I can not imagine living another ten years (or more). I am more worried about being in a position where I have no control or no independence in my life. If I quit my job, then I become dependant on another person to take care of me.

Anyhow, I appreciate the thoughts. No worries-- I just needed the discussion.

Quote from: kwolfsheimer on June 18, 2012, 06:03:45 PMWould you ever consider it?

Yes.  But I'm not at that point yet.  And I don't condemn anyone who is chronically ill and thinking in that direction.  The biggest thing for me with this disease is the spiritual struggle.  It is very important to me ... and I feel let down by God.

Kwolf, I applaud your bravery to bring up the discussion of one's right to control their own destiny....with the input of loved ones, of course.  I see both sides of it however, watching my parents suffer for years makes me lean more toward "everyone's right to decide" rather than
how many people my folks would hurt leaving this earth on their own terms.  There are so many things to consider no matter what side of the fence you are on.  I just don't agree with all the people being kept alive by pharmaceuticals which aren't making their "quality of life" anything but worse!  I do wish our country would legalize this issue so it would be more of a "medical decision" between the patient, doctor and patient's loved ones and not such a taboo behavior.  I hope you all will forgive me for stating my opinion.  If it were an option perhaps those who have lost hope might decide to fight after much discussion with and support of their family, church and physicians.       

The problem that I have with it is the possibility of a cure right around the corner. How horrible would it be if someone committed suicide, when they were just a year away from either a cure or a much better medicine to help people deal with it.

I posted a reply a minute ago and it went somewhere...but nowhere...it's gone.

My father died a horrible painful death, he died sept 1987 after 9 years of cancer. He endured surgeries, radiation, chemo,. He took percocet..then dilaudid and then liquid morphine in his stomach feeding tube b/c he could not longer swallow. He had a tacheostomy as well.

My mother worked at a bank for the insurance...my father was always self employed up until cancer made it impossible to work...he got on SS.

Hospice got involved .got him a hospital bed..put it in front of livingroom window. my grandma and i took turns watching him during the day while mom worked close to the end. hospice gave him medcial and emotionally and spiritual hlep.

A few months before he died...unknown to me he asked my husband to "find him" after he shoots himself while mom was at work. he didn't want mom to come home and find him..he wanted my husband to see it and call police. he was going to give my husband the day he would do it.

My husband said he couldn't be a part of that. I found out about it months after the funeral and was upset by the news.

My father had access if he wanted to...to the morphine in the kitchen cupboard...why he never dumped it all in his feeding tube..I'll never know. I gave him his morphine,Ensure,water,etc...

My father died at home, my mom was in her room asleep, my sisterr on the couch and I was "on watch". I had never witnessed anyone die, did not realize the signs. The hospice nurse was just there in the afternoon and did not give us the heads up...she later said it took her by surprise as well.

The cancer in the end made it to his brain, lungs and bones.

Why didn't he kill himself? He had his guns, he had morphine.

Did he worry this act would "kill" my mother? Was he really afraid to do it?
Was he worried his life insurance policy would not pay out for suicide?


I hope I never have to consider this for myself...don't know what I would do.


eye2dry

Quote from: gold55 on June 19, 2012, 07:56:07 AM
Kwolf, I applaud your bravery to bring up the discussion of one's right to control their own destiny....with the input of loved ones, of course.  I see both sides of it however, watching my parents suffer for years makes me lean more toward "everyone's right to decide" rather than
how many people my folks would hurt leaving this earth on their own terms.  There are so many things to consider no matter what side of the fence you are on.  I just don't agree with all the people being kept alive by pharmaceuticals which aren't making their "quality of life" anything but worse!  I do wish our country would legalize this issue so it would be more of a "medical decision" between the patient, doctor and patient's loved ones and not such a taboo behavior.  I hope you all will forgive me for stating my opinion.  If it were an option perhaps those who have lost hope might decide to fight after much discussion with and support of their family, church and physicians.       

Good post. I agree.  When I was in the 11th grade, I wrote an essay on euthenasia that actually won "an award" for my class. I was so young and "pie in the sky" then. I watched my aunt "pull the plug" on my cousin Stevie and I thought about how hard that would be. But imagine pulling your own plug. That's worse. I was in favor of it then-- which surprises me. I would have never thought that I would be sick. I was always advocating for others.

I don't believe in "suicide" but I do believe in quality of life. The problem is where do you know where the line is? As bad as one day is, there might be something the next day that is good. But that is life-- it will always go on.  And I believe in God and in a sense, destiny. But I also believe that people make their own destiny-- you get up and go. What happens when you can't?

I take a "compassion" drug that is illegal in the US except under strict guidelines. The side effect could be death and I take it with much awareness of my consequences. I choose the risk to live my life. Would I be denied the same compassion to end my life-- with full awareness of it's consequences? Would I be wrong?

I don't know... I just don't know.

I have no wisdom to offer - this is way out of my depth. I am incredibly fortunate to have no one in my family (that I know of) who has committed suicide, and family who have died have been very elderly and had relatively short illnesses as well as expert care. I am blissfully ignorant....which also kind of scares me.

I think you are very smart to educate yourself.

When this disease nibbles around the edges of us we continue our lives as best we can, but holy cow, it makes us feel so....MORTAL. It's a visceral awareness that maybe most people don't have. We peek around the corner into that dark, terrifying alley where unspeakable suffering lurks. We see it - it sees us. We can feel it sucking us in We're aware that we stand a little bit closer than most to that risky corner, and there's a hand back there that might - or might not - drag us back into the darkness at any point. So of course we look for an escape plan - whether it's as benign as Plaquenil and Ibuprofen, moving on up through Methotrexate and Cellcept and so on - the dozens of painkillers - high doses of steroids - infusions, etc - hospital stays, wheelchairs, home care - how bad does it have to get? It's terrifying. So of course you have to think about the endgame. It's silly not to.

But in the end, we ALL die - not just those of us with autoimmune diseases. We ALL do....so maybe this is one of the weird blessings of this disease? That we FEEL our mortality and actually CONSIDER it?

I don't know. I am not that sick yet (and hope not to be, of course...), so I can only imagine.

But I think this is a really important discussion and I am overwhelmed by how thoughtful and open everyone is being. When I read the original post I expected a bunch of knee-jerk reactions, but no....these are thoughtful, compassionate, COMPLICATED spirits laid bare. This is a realistic, non-judgmental discussion of the "Ultimate Taboo Subject" and it is so, so welcome.

I am both sorry and incredibly grateful I really can't relate very well to actual contemplation of that "endgame"...but it is such a comfort to read all this and know that when/if I am ready, people like you guys are out there to be REAL and kind and open.

In the meantime, please know that this discussion alone is testament to how much all your lives matter!!!!

Kwolf, I agree with you on the compassion. Nobody should judge when someone else feels that enough is enough, and there is no hope left. I get that, and there is a lot of unnecessary suffering. For some, the extra time is worth the suffering. For others, their business on this earth is concluded, relationships are ended, goodbyes are said, love is expressed on both sides, and it is time.

I think the trauma to "survivors" of suicide comes when the above is not accomplished. Also, many people who ensure that they have the means to end it all feel secure enough to endure more, since they do have the choice. Somewhere I found that about half of people who have official permission to kill themselves in the U.S. and have the means available choose not to. It is a very final choice, and really, it should be up to the individual.

The big problem becomes when other factors enter into it and it is no longer up to the individual. When money is involved, and the family starts encouraging suicide to preserve their inheritance things can get really ugly. As you know so well, lack of family support is a huge issue, and you can imagine how easy it is to nudge someone that direction. And it would be even easier to slip the drugs into something and turn it into a shove right over the cliff. There would be no charges of murder, either, since nobody would know. After all, the person was approved for assisted suicide and is no longer there to testify that it was actually murder.

When the government is involved, it is even scarier. In the Netherlands, doctors have moved from "assisted" suicide to forced "suicide," in part because defective infants are too expensive to suit the government health regulators. Somewhere I read about a lady with ovarian cancer, terminal, who wanted to live out her few remaining weeks because she had business to attend to. She was hospitalized for some care, left over the weekend, and when her doctor came in Monday he found that the weekend hospitalist had murdered her because she was terminal anyhow and they needed the bed for someone who could be helped. We in this country are in a situation where people are decrying "self-inflicted" illness and talking about denying health care (not just payment for it) for "the obese" and smokers and anyone who doesn't exercise enough to suit them and refuses to "eat healthy." Search the terms "assisted suicide forced" for some interesting information. The "right" quickly becomes the "duty," and if the person shirks that duty, it can be and has been forced on them.

Another search term is "not dead yet." This is an organization of people with very severe disabilities who are living productive lives (not necessarily earning money) and are very concerned about assisted suicide and the new proposal to let UNOS examine "terminal" patients for organ donation suitability WITHOUT THEIR OR THEIR FAMILY'S CONSENT OR KNOWLEDGE before the decision has been made to terminate life support.
Human nature being what it is, I think that official sanction of (especially) physician assisted suicide will send us skidding right down that icy road to the Nazi Germany philosophy about "useless eaters." And believe me, we will be considered useless eaters once we get sick enough to stop working.

This is so much bigger than individuals choosing to end their lives.

Sharon

Kwolf, you said you need to work another year. You might want to consider asking to start ratcheting down the out of school obligations immediately so that you can focus on your teaching duties. It comes under the heading of "reasonable accommodation." That would make it easier. Some of the other teachers on here can give you better suggestions than I can. Except, start using wheels to get from here to there immediately. Conserve your energy for the important things.

Hugs, Sharon

I have been slowly reading this thread. I am glad you felt comfortable to come here, and share with us how you are feeling, and what you have been thinking about.

I can hear how much everyone cares, and loves you. It generates feelings in all of us, because it touches our very humanity.

It made me think of my precious mother who passed away March 13 of this year.

It was morning, and me and my husband were asleep, when he woke up hearing a hard knocking at our door. I didn't hear anything.

He came back to me, and woke me up, and said, I have something I need to tell you. Right then fear hit me. He said that was -----to tell us your mom passed away very early in the morning(during night time hours).

Suddenly my life switched to the surreal. I remember saying no she is not dead. Then while he is saying something, I can't even tell you what, I am running to get clothes on, and saying the whole time, I want to see my momma.

I didn't get in the car. He got in the car following behind me while I am running down the drive way to mom and dad's house feeling like I am in a nightmare waiting to wake up. Praying to wake up.

I get there, and the ambulance had already taken mom's body away. I hated that I wasn't there before they took her body away.

I went to sit by dad. He also was living in a bad dream state. He just started telling what he remembered, the whole time being in a state of shock.

Today, we are all still struggling. I spend a lot of time helping dad, and we take him many places with us, and for his needs too. I will continue this in a part 2

susanep

Part 2
Mom is spoken in all his memories of their lives, including his working years, and even all he did as a kids.

My dad does not have Alzheimers, just the normal memory loss of age we all have.

He turns 80 in September. He hurts with every step he takes, because he has such bad arthritis that his bones in his knees and other areas just grind together, so that causes him to walk slow.

He also had diabetes, and ulcers getting worse on his legs deep into the bones.

Dad mows his yard, talks with his great grand daughters ages (twins 5, one 8, and one 12) he also has 2 other great grand daughters age 7 and 12, but they don't live as close.

Dad planted a few vegetables, and I do mean a few. Not sure they are doing much, but in his and mom's past a garden each year was as common for them as breathing.  :)

He continues to go to church driving each week. Some of us go with him, but take turns.

He has his little dog he cares for that was mom's little dog. The dog grieved beyond anything I had seen after mom died, wondering where she was. The little great grand daughters that was so close to mom cried every day for a long time. They still cry and have bad dreams at night.

Their mom told them that when they are outside playing, and feel the wind blowing that it is mom giving them hugs. The  twins wait each day for that wind, and one of the twins takes it to heart so much that when she feels the wind she starts picking little flowers, and throws them up in the air to mom.

There will be a part 3
susanep

Part 3
Now about my mom and her pain. She had different medical problems, almost died once with electrical heart problem issues so they put a pacemaker in her heart or however they do that.

She most likely had lupus, but the doctors didn't treat her as they should have. She worked hard all her life, and developed peripheral neuropathy in her legs that got progressively worse year by year.

She told me many times that they hurt her so bad that it felt like someone lowering her legs in scalding water. Dad bought her everything that they thought might lessen the pain.

She did not have diabetes, so hers was not that kind. She would not hear of anything from us girls at Thanksgiving, Christmas, Mother's Day, Father's Day, etc. but to cook a big dinner.

It was ok for us to bring something, but she insisted on making most of the dinner. She said, I know some day I won't be able to, but I want to as long as I can. More than anything she loved dad, and all of us kids, grand kids, and sent from heaven as far as she was concerned great grand daughters.

She made those dinners up until the year before last year. Last Christmas she couldn't cook 2011, because she was weak, sick, and it was the first year in a long time that our one brother was there, because he is a long distance truck driver. So all mom's kids were there. She ended up that evening being taken to the hospital.

She was there for a week, and begging them to go home.  :) Dad barely able to walk the halls in this large hospital drove to see her each day. I went with him most of the time.

She had some kind of slowing of her intestinal tract with obstruction. They said she was very sick, and if she didn't improve with what they were doing to reverse that she would need surgery of a big portion of her intestines, and maybe a bag to wear.

Still though even if she needed the surgery, and bag so what at least mom would come home when well
There will be a part 4
susanep

Part 4
She did come home, didn't have to have the surgery or bag, but in the past fell into things alot due to her weakening legs from all the nerve damage from her neuropathy.

She fell again the evening after I had been there hours to see her and dad. I wasn't there when she fell, and hadn't seen the dark coloring on her face my sister talked about.

I called mom, and mom even told me about it, but acted like it was no big deal, but did hurt a lot.

That night she died, most likely from a brain hemorrhage. Dad said she had been throwing up all  night, and mom always easily threw up, but dad didn't know that it also can happen from a bad fall.

Mom said in the past though that she hoped to die in her sleep. Dad said that night she woke up, and mumbled where he could barely understand her, but was saying something about all her kids then went back to sleep.
:-X

Her and dad would have been married 60 years this past june 14. I had my rhuemy appointment that day so we took dad with us, and also took him out to dinner.

Forgive me everyone for writing so long. I am sorry, but my mom endured so much pain for her family. She told me if she didn't have family, and her belief in God she would feel like killing herself. She said she felt that way most days.
There will be a part5
susanep

Part 5

Sorry, it kept saying I had too many characters.
I am not preaching to anyone, but I do believe in God myself, and many in my family do too. I have seen him actually true to what he says in scripture in my life. It's amazing. Whether you precious folks like it or not, you all are always daily in my prayers.  ;D

I believe God gave me my life as a gift even though I don't deserve it. He gives me free will, because he doesn't want no robots. hehe....

He loved me and everyone so much that he decided to send his son to be flesh too like me, so I couldn't get too whiney hehe and say he doesn't know how I feel. lol..., but also to be the ultimate sacrifice for my sins and everyone like me, and then my hope with my mom and others that he rose from that grave alive and well  and strong and that others will do the same that also believe his words are indeed what he said they are.

I don't care for religion. I could make a frog into my religion. hehe...But I do know the Loving God of the Loving scripture is good, and true for me, and others who know.

I also am trying to learn, and I say trying, to give even my daily pain to God as a morsel of a gift to him for his help. I believe even though sometimes when I come here to cry, ask for help, etc . that I can lift up my worse pain to God for help, and ultimately as my biggest gift to him as I keep holding on and endure for me, him, and family and friends. Someday, if my pain causes me to want to take my life, I so pray everyone will pray for me for intervention to stop me, please.

I feel such a love for all of you right now that I really have no words for. But each of you are part of a beautiful plan. We are each here for a reason, a story, a lesson for others, a wonderful large family, mostly I believe to honor God, Jesus too, ok, and the Holy Spirit.

There will be a part 6
susanep

Part 6
I take meds for my diagnosis, symptoms, pain, pain, and pain, nooooo energy, and I have so much loss of memory that there is a word in this writing that I have to insert when finished to ask my husband what it is called before I send this post. hehe

I have seen a psychiatrist, or rather many of them, for meds, etc. I could tell you stories, but some things are private, and painful.

I wrote all of this for what it's worth not meaning to offend any of you precious people, to say if your thinking of suicide think instead of livingcide (a new word I invented), get an appointment with a psychiatrist to tell him/her how you feel, get meds that will help, sometimes need to be patient while they get the right one adjusted for you, and get pain meds you need to help your days, and find even just one good thing about your day each day.

My thing today that is good is this board of people that come together and share their feelings, pain, good times, funny times, rants, ideas, new article findings, things we can do, etc. etc. well stick around everyone, because one thing is for sure, if you are not here you are really going to miss out.

Whew, I am finished!!!!
susanep :)    Moderators, please say I am not knocked off this board?  :) I will understand though if you do.

This thread has become more wonderful and interesting as it goes. 

Sleep in Seattle, I think you put it so well...there have been no knee-jerk reactions on this discussion.  Only compassionate, well-thought replies on what all this means to each of us.  As you said, a realistic and non-judgmental discussion about a subject no one seems to talk about. 

Thank you, Kwolf for beginning this discussion.  Something that may sound so morbid has actually become a true sharing for so many of us, and our deep thoughts and feelings.  I hope all our experiences help you.

Not trying to beat this into the ground, but please remember you have choices.  As difficult as it may sound to you to change your teaching career, when you say you cannot do this any longer and live this way, it's time to make plans to change something.

I know it's a difficult thing to do when our self-worth is tied to our careers, and we have worked toward certain goals all our adult lives.  It can be tough to "reinvent" ourselves as someone who is not "going to work" as we always have.  I struggled with this quite a bit when I filed for disability.  It takes time to work out how to spend our lives differently, but we find that we can still be productive and fulfilled in ways we may have never thought of before. 

Susanep,

You'll never be "banned" or knocked off for expressing yourself and encouraging all of us, my dear.  ;) Thank you for your deep sharing.

Blessings,
Melinda

Susanep Im sitting in the airport waiting for my flight back home and Im crying none stop. Your posts meant so much to me. At the beginning I felt sad and I really wanted to commit suicide  I didnt want to live a sick life. My syptoms are not as bad right now and I always wonder how they going to be tomorrow, next week, next year 10 years. There a lot of days that I wonder why me. Suicide erased out of my mind when I realised how much my family loves me and even though Im sick my kids dont see that yet. Maybe when my kids grow up and they dont longer need their mom Suicide will come in my mind again but for know I have a husband, 2 sons, brother sisters ans parents that love me so much thats all I need.

Kwolfsheimer have you try Evoxac? Maybe it will help better. I really hope your doctors can help you and manage your symptoms better.

Cindy you hang in there. I will keep praying for you. I know it's hard. But, you are worth it. I know that is a strange comment, but this world would not be the same without you. Each solitary individual like you make up this world.

Take care
susanep :)

  I don't have long to post today, but I got caught up in this amazing discussion. I agree that it takes a lot of courage to make either decision, to go on in the face of pain and agony, to be with those you love, or to choose to die and move on to whatever I next, alone. I, personally believe that there is more after this life, but it would be so frightening to me to take that step. I do think both choices take courage.

  I do think that assisted suicide, where you talk to the people you love and make an informed choice, causes much less pain and agony. You can say goodbye and resolve things, it is a kinder, gentler way for everyone involved.

  My husband and I happened to catch a wonderful PBS show called "The Suicide Tourist" about a man named Craig Ewert and his journey to Switzerland to die. He and his family had made this choice after he was diagnosed with ALS and had become increasingly disabled. To choose assisted suicide in Switzerland you have to be able to state, on video, that this is your choice, not coerced, and be able to push the button yourself, to discontinue life support. He knew if he waited any longer he wouldn't be able to do those things anymore. He said goodbye to his children and then he and his wife made the journey from the US. The documentary takes you all the way with them. They talk about why they made this choice, their feelings, and the reactions of others. It is really, really good and goes over a lot of the issues discussed here. You do see him die, and I have to admit it was   Hard for me to watch that part and it made me cry. But I would recommend this movie highly. If you look up PBS assisted suicide you can find info on the documentary, and also an interview with his family about how they are doing now. They are all okay with the choice he made, and it's definitely worth reading, as well as the comments after, which are 99% positive.

  One of my very favorite authors, Terry Pratchett, who is an amazing man, and a very talented satirist, is facing the same issue, as he was diagnosed with early onset Alzheimer's. He also made a movie, shown in England, called " Choosing To Die". I have not seen that one, but I have been keeping up with his story as he is someone I admire greatly. He is still writing books, and is not ready to make that choice yet, but is keeping the option open and has the paperwork.

  It is a hard issue to discuss, and I think it is wonderful that the people in this group can discuss it so compassionately, with such great advice!  I'm now running really late, but that's okay!

Thanks Melinda  :)

susanep :)

HI
I too am so sorry to hear how torn you are about your future. None of us know exactly what our futures hold. You sound like a strong and independant person...it is time to let yourself be somewhat dependant on your husband. Thats waht marriage is about.. Can you take FMLA from work for a while so that you can start seeing a therapist, get some antidepressants and let them start working and get some rest. Once you relieve the stress of work, you can think more clearly..knowing your job will still be there if you want to return to it.
There are other options out there for you...tutoring, teaching online..sometimes you have to think outside of the box..
Your children and husband need you...in whatever capacity you can be there for them..when i think back to growing up, i usually go back to the small things my mom and dad did for me thta made me feel special..spending time with me, was always the most important thing..
I understand the concern for the future..how bad will it be etc..but you need to LIVE in the now and the future will take care of itself..you will know what the answers are for you when and if the time comes.
I hope you do not feel you have to resort to suicide...although it may make sense to you it will never make sense to your family...unless you have been close to doing it, you dont understand someones thinking..
wishing you all the best....remember to breathe!!

Kelly - I hope you will consider reducing your hours working so you can help to reduce some of the added stress in your life. 

With that being said, I would be real careful what you tell your employer.  Remember, they are NOT in your ball court, even though it might appear they are.  Also, if you do negotiate some reduction in hours, etc. - get it in writing!

At times, when work responsibilities, family responsibilities, health issues all pile up at the same time - it can be overwhelming.  It might seem like one more straw will break the camels back . . . enough is enough!

Can any of your doctors help with the situation?  Do you have FMLA papers on file?

Sometimes it's the darkest just before dawn.  It can feel like we are existing underneath a black cloud that is just following us everywhere we go.  But . .. tomorrow is a new day . . . new beginnings, new outlook.  New hope.  Not to break out in song . . . but . . . . "the sun'll will come out . . tomorrow . . bet your bottom dollar . . that tomorrow . . . there'll be sun!" 

For myself, suicide is not an option.  There are no guarantees in life.  There will be good times, bad times, healthy times and times when we struggle.  That's all part of life.  The good, the bad, the ugly.

I've known several people who took their own lives.  It's sad . . . very sad.

At least two of them were healthy people - so there wasn't the "illness" factor involved.  I just have a hard time wrapping my head around the "why" part of it all.  Everyone has their own struggles in life.  Many times we don't know the full story of their day-to-day lives.

One of them, was a young teenager . . . who had her whole life ahead of her.  What could be so terrible to a 15 yr. old?  They haven't even really lived life yet - they are still finding their way in life. I realize about peer pressure, bullying, low self esteem, boyfriends, school, parents, etc. I didn't walk in her shoes, I don't know the answer.  Many times, people let others influence them - put ideas into their heads.  I won't go into all the what if's . . there's always lots of those.  But . . . it does leave lasting impressions on people. Her fellow classmates - what are they to think?  When the going gets tough, bail out?  I don't know.  What about the fellow classmates who saw her standing beside the busy highway next to her car clutching a stuffed animal and didn't stop to see if she needed help, to only learn later that day, that she chose to step into the path of an 18-wheeler as it passed by her.  What about that truck driver who will be riddled with guilt for the rest of his life for killing a teenager who purposely stepped in front of him as he drove down the road?  It forever changed him and his family.  That day ended this young girls "suffering", but created much heartache for innocent people, who without consent or knowledge, became part of her "plan"

Or a friend who decided enough is enough.  Weren't her husband, adult kids, her loving grandchildren, and friends enough for her?  I guess not.  Sad, very sad.  Something I just don't understand.  Nothing any of us could have done would have changed her mind.  I didn't know about her "plans".  It was something she thought about for a very long time and then one day, carried them out.  I wish I had been given the opportunity to talk to her.  I at least wish I could have told her what happiness she brought to my life.  How I loved to get cyberspace notes from her.  When I saw the "from" name, a smile would pop across my face.  I wish I could have said goodbye.  I was never given that chance. 

It's not my place to judge . . . and I'm not . . . all I know is, for myself . . . it is not an option.  Period.

To those of you who have lost beloved family members and friends to suicide, I'm so sorry.  Thank you for sharing you most private, heartbreaking experience with us.

Bless you Kelly . . . . I hope you will consider making choices that are still available too.  Life is so precious.

Bucky

I have chosen to live with dignity, and my hope is to pass with dignity.

I wrote about this last night and it went to cyberspace.  I can't remember a whole lot of what I wrote except that I have been trying to stay alive my whole life.  My parents died at 51 and 57, both uexpedly and of heart attacks.  My sister and I were 13&15 when my Dad died and my Mom was a 45 y/o widow with 2 teen girls (lucky) and two grown kids on their own.  She had never worked out before except to clean motels and help out with out farmwork. 

We four siblings did not want that same end for us.  We tried to avoid it as much as possible and we have done better.  I had 3 sibs 2 years ago and then within 3 months, I had one.  My brother died of heart attack and sis of colon cancer.  They were 71 & 72.  So my 2 year younger sister and I are orphans.  I can honestly say that I have never thought of suicide, but we do have a suicide in our family.

My mother had an alcoholic brother.  She was his "go-to" person when he needed a home, or a meal, or to sober up which he did often.  He is one of my bad memories of growing up.  Never knowing when this sorry soul would be on our doorstep looking for a bed, when we didn't have enough for ourselves.  That meant we (kids) had to move our stuff for his, take a rollaway bed in the living room so he could have our bed.  Over and over.  I despised this man who used my mother so many times.

My mother died and this brother came from two states away by bus to attend her funeral.  He had been sober and working for some time.  Well, somehow during our loss of our mother, he went off the wagon.  Exactly one week after we buried my mother, my uncle blew his brains out in my brother's house.  He knew he wouldn't have Mom to use and lean on any more and so he just used my brother's house to make a mess.  He was always friends with my brother and this is how he ended his life.  I have never grieved for this uncle and decided that he probably did us all a favor, including himself.  He never had any children and was married once for a short time.  While my uncle had no close family of his own, he left terrible memories for the four of us.  Of course, he cared about no one by himself.  The joke was on him because none of us cared as we had spent our whole lives watching him use our mother and other members of the family.  I just cannot imagine this for someone you have deep feelings for.  It must be a terrible end. 

eyeamdry - wow- I am so sorry you had such a terrible time with this person. I understand as my mother was an alcoholic. Nothing mattered to her but her drinking. My father and she divorced when I was 10 but my sister and I were left with her. Was a nightmare. I have chosen to be very aware of the issues, avoid them and I also avoid being near those that are drunk. Made for interesting dates when I was young, :)

Know you are normal and hugged!
Gayle

k, I am not arguing with you on these points, but I guess I haven't quite figured out the dynamics of a few things.

I wonder if you understand that your health status might improve if you quit work. It is amazing how much better a person feels when they don't have to work. You still are not healthy, but you have more energy for yourself and the emotional rollar coaster slows down because you aren't as tired.

It was hard for me to quit work and in my head after 9 years I still think like I might be going back again someday. But---I know that is not possible.

Also, I didn't see any of the heavier duty drugs listed by you. In other words, have you not used plaquenil, methotrexate, imuran, etc?? These drugs can help stop the autoimmune attack on your body. I guess if it was me I would want to try these drugs and see what would happen.

I respect your desire and ability to choose your destiny, but I guess I wonder if the doctors aren't being proactive with your disease process. Good luck. Irish

Irish-- I have tried Plaquenil twice-- I am highly allergic to it. My ski blistered and peeled and I felt incredible sick. I got off of it for a few weeks. Tried again and response was instantaneous. Had to go to emergency room. Tried Methotrexate-- also couldn't take it. If
Can't remember why except that I was told by doc to stop immediately. I am only on meds for stomach/ intestine, blood pressure, cholesterol. NO anti inflammatories. I take salagen and restassis. I also take about 5 different pills to sleep.

First of all, I am feeling so sorry for your pain----physical, emotional, spiritual. As Irish said, many of us have had at least a fleeting thought of suicide.
I recently received another autoimmune diagnosis & found myself thinking how will I manage another one!? I still don't know.

I appreciate the fact that you opened a dialogue about suicide; glad we can talk about it! Three years ago, my sister and her husband died in a murder suicide. It was a pact, they had planned carefully to use the advice in Final Exit whenever her husband's illness became unbearable. Something went very wrong, and she shot him, then herself. I spoke to her the night before and she seemed fine.

The loss has had great impact on our family----she left a daughter & 3 grandchildren who as teenagers are still trying to grasp this. We all still mourn.  In my sister's case, I believe depression played a large part in the choice.

Try to find a skilled psychologist or therapist who understands severe chronic illness. Give meds a try.
Just as things can take a turn for the worst, remember sometimes things improve a bit. I found a good psych after the "incident" & it has helped me so much.

I know that sometimes I feel backed in a corner when in truth I have options. There are so many losses in chronic illness, I think we all feel overwhelmed sometime.

I don't know you, but know that friends & family love you. I wish you the best.

During the darkest times in my life I have often considered suicide. I never pictured the actual steps needed to do it, I just wanted to go to sleep and not wake up. We on this board seem to have more than our share of crosses to bear, be they physical or mental/emotional. During some of my bad times God and I have not exactly been on speaking terms.

But somewhere along the way I decided that there were so many things in my life that I questioned or blamed God for that I needed to make a list of those questions so that when I die and go to heaven (surely I've paid my dues by now!) I can sit down with God in the rockers on his front porch, pull out my list and say "Lord, I have a couple of questions for you and have been waiting a long time for the answers." All of my questions start with the words "WHAT ON EARTH WERE YOU THINKING when..." The list has evolved over the years, kind of like the FBI's Most Wanted list. Many questions have occupied the number 1 spot, some of them more than once.

After a while I noticed that in addition to giving me a place to put my trials and tribulations, the list has also given me a reason to keep going. I want to know those answers.

When I was in college and my early adult years, when things weren't quite as I had hoped them to be, my mother would usually close out the conversation by saying "This too shall pass." It frustrated me so much then as it wasn't the least bit helpful to me at that time. Over the years I learned she was right. All things do pass. They just happen to be replaced with more troubles more often that I would like.

And as for me and God, we are on better speaking terms now. Sometimes I yell at him and say "ARE YOU FREAKING KIDDING ME?" like a few weeks ago when I fell and broke my tailbone. But other times I just say "Thank you."

It's easy to be bogged down when we are sick and tired and hopeless. It's easier to try each day to find something to smile about. If you write your good moments down in a list each day you may soon find that you actually have more good moments than you thought you did. As someone else said on this board earlier "we all die". If you get there before I do, save me a spot on that porch. If the rockers are all taken a porch swing will do.

Karen R

I just noticed that you are on Etrafon. I think that is one of the tricyclic antidepressants. Also, if you are on 5 medications for sleep I can't help but think that maybe your brain chemicals are just trashed. Time to have a medication inventory by your doc. If he doesn't want to do it I would advise going to a psychiatrist who can help you get your meds and your brain chemicals back in order.

The more medication a person takes for anxiety, sleep, etc the worse the problems can become. There are so many drug interactions. I would advise you to get to a doc and get yourself put on one of the newer medications for depression. The tricyclics work in some ways, but they cause all sort of issues when taken at the dosage needed for depression. I know cause I was on them for awhile years ago and got off of them. They also tend to dry a person out a lot.

I hope that you can get some medical help to slow the autoimmune disease. Also, the fact that your brain chemicals are all a mess plus you are exhausted and not feeling good really puts you at high risk for a rotten depression. Go get help ASAP. Remember, many family doctors will order the antidepressants, but often with a bad, lingering, life threatening depression a psychiatrist is the very best bet.

Family doctors just aren't well versed enough in depression and the way to use the drugs. It isn't their specialty. Interesting how when our heart bothers us docs will refer us to a cardiologist, but when we get depressed they try to finagle their way through. Good luck and keep us posted. Irish

Im so sorry you are feeling so helpless... I am not AGAINST suicide..but like the others on here.. I have had to deal with it my life. My sons father committed suicide. It wasnt over pain, it was a cheap way out from dealing with life itself. It happened in 1998 when my son was only 5 years old. My son is now 19 years old and Ill tell you its REALLY caused ALOT of grief and GUILT. I will never get over him EVER. I was not "with him" anymore and he was having issues with her then-girlfriend. But I do feel like I could have done more to prevent that. I guess I cannot compare it to your YOUR situation as it IS different. But you must think about the after-suicide consequences of loved ones. Its VERY VERY painful. I live in CANADA and yes we just passed a doctor-assisted suicide last week. Im happy for those people that are literally dying anyways and in such pain that life is No life at all ... But where theres a glimmer of HOPE or help.. You must try to go on!!!! People LOVE and NEED you whether you realize that or not...I dont know. I am sure you have thought about that as well.

I MYSELF have considered suicide and wondered HOW i was going to do it. Right down to leaving a note for my current family physician about HELPING people in PAIN. I get ANGRY that nobody will help or listen tome. Mind you they thought i only had Fibromyalgia and I didnt know about the Sjogrens. I suffer greatly and he doesn't believe in pain meds, unless you are dying. And that GREATLY upsets me as I wish I could have a LIFE. Im tired and Im tired of being sore and crying myself to sleep at times. I hardly EVER cook for my kids anymore either. I feel the guilt from that evreyday as well.. Although my kids are 12 and 19- they still NEED me and I SHOULD be preparing meals and keeping my kitchen clean. My entire house is a disaster area. I have always been a clean person. But Im not anymore and i get VERY upset over that....

I was working as a PSW ...I loved my job helping others. I had to QUIT ...I couldnt do it anymore. I am now on Disability. It SUCKS as I was used to making a week ..what I make in a month now. I hate always being broke. But this is life.

I had to SERIOUSLY consider the repercussions if I ever did commit suicide....and decided...its not worth it. My children would be LOST without me. Neither of them would have any parents left :(  And  even though I might be more at peace myself.. it didnt outweigh what I would do to those around me-Including MY parents (I already lost a brother in a car accident years ago) so It would be devastating to them too!

I agree  with the others here that asked if you are on anti-depressants? and if so.. they are NOT working properly...perhaps an overview of your meds is a great idea! You need to try to stay positive.. But I know its HARD when you feel like your life has been Robbed! I live on my couch pretty much. Im ALWAYS SO TIRED and cant do anything.Ive gained alot of weight .. I doont cook much meals anymore and just grab whatever i can that fast.. My kids are always telling me they are Hungry..well theres lots of food... I just dont make big meals so they also are picking at things here and there. It smakes me feel BAD> I dont have COMPANY anymore.. and I used to be VERY social. BUt its because I dont wanna have todo my hair and make-up as thats a CHORE now.. and myHouse is a DISASTER you wouldn't even believe it! :( So I CANT have people over anymore. YOU ARE NOT ALONE HERE!! Im glad you posted as I felt ALONE as well.. My memory is SO BAD :(  I forget EVERYTHING (for example teh garbage didnt get put out yesterday AGAIN) because I FORGET everything :( It makes me look SO IRRESPONSIBLE !!!!! :( I was NEVER irresponsible!!!

Anywasy enough about ME... But I want you to know your NOT alone..and feel free to INBOX me privately at anytime!! :) I think you should consider going on disability and quitting your job. I know its not nice to hear but working would kill ME.. I couldnt do it anymore. I cant even do my own housework so? :(  But al LEAST IM HERE ... and Im going to try to get more help with my Rheumy .... You should do the same! IWishing you all the best and dont be stranger Cuz you are NOT alone OK? Prayers and Huggs sent your way!!! xx

We see our health decline, gradually, slowly, like a itch we cant scratch, we feel the pain the loneliness , we try to do our best but it never seems good enough, the illness stops us, our friends who cant see anything wrong with us on the utside now feel we make all this stuff up,, who beside us have ever heard of autoimmune diseases, ?, they dont know its our body trying to kill us off, and eventually it wins,
We go to great lengths trying, praying, hoping , to find some kind of cure from the medical community only to leave a office visit more frustrated then when we went in, clutching another prescription that we know is useless, and if you can still drive you wonder how bad it would hurt to just steer the car into a bridge abutment, Me,, I cant drive anymore, I stopped,, heck I can barely walk or use my arms anymore let alone drive, why the medical community refuses to help terminal pateints die with diginity is beyond me,, and the blame goes all the way to the top, politicians, I heard a phrase the other day that hospitals use for a dying patient, circling the drain, no one wants to die, and no one wants to live ina  body that doesnt work anymore, I dont want to be dependant on anyone to take care of me, I should be allowed to pick and choose the time of my departure, its not selfish,, why is it selfish, to want to just leave when you know there is only more problems down the road from all this,, a never ending cycle of more grief and suffering,,

The concept of being "dependent" on others is a big problem. Not a single person is ever truly independent of others at any time of their life. When we are born, we are depending for our very physical, mental and emotional survival on adults, ideally our married parents who support each other. As we grow up, we depend on adults for education, food, water, shelter and clothing. Gradually we assume responsibility for more and more of those things, leaving our parents as supporters behind.

However, we remain totally dependent on others all our lives. Nobody has to grow their own flax or raise their own sheep, harvest the flax and wool, card it, spin it, weave it, and then sew it. We don't till the soil, plant the wheat, harvest it, thresh it, grind it, and then bake the loaf. We don't cut down the trees, trim the branches, drag them to the site, cut them into boards (or not; ever wonder why log cabins were so popular?), then build the house. I don't know a single person who makes their own (legal) therapeutic pharmaceuticals for their own consumption. We don't mine the ore, smelt it, shape it, dig the well, collect and refine the oil, pour the gasoline into the engine we just made and then drive our car. And so on, and so on, and so on.

As we get older, if we are so lucky, the need for more personal support increases, until at the end of a very long life (even it if only seems that way), many of us become as dependent on others as we were as infants. So what? Does it makes us a "burden?" Not really; there are people who love us enough to do that, or who are paid to care for us. This keeps them in a home, lets them raise their kids, educate them, etc. As long as you have most of a mind, you are a human being of value. You can find a way to reach out to others, to appreciate and share with those who care information, memories, appreciation and love with them in a way that you certainly couldn't as an infant.

We never know what we say or do that will touch someone's heart and make a lifelong difference. I believe in letting God speak through me, and when I meet a stranger, I sort of "step aside" mentally and let the first words that come to me out of my mouth. So often, they are something I certainly didn't think of, and the other person looks startled, and it turns out that that is exactly what they needed to hear at that moment.

One example: When a woman brought her late mother's little poodle to me to "care for for a few days until the no-kill shelter has an opening" a couple of Julys ago, I "stepped aside" and took the dog out of her hands and said, "Oh, baby, your mama loves you very much and didn't want to leave you." Her daughter teared up, and I put my arms around her and repeated that. It turns out that she had come into the house and found her mother sitting in her chair, dead, with no opportunities for any "goodbyes."

Now, I don't say "mama," I say "mommy." Normally I would have observed what a cute little dog he was, and said how sorry I was that she had to give him up. And how I admired her for trying for so long to take care of everything she needed to take care of. Those weren't my words, and they did touch her heart and made a difference.

We all give back; we just often don't know how or when we will make a difference. If you think about your own life, you can look back and see odd moments when someone said or did something that touched your heart and changed your life in some small or large way. Or the overall memory of how someone lived their life despite whatever gave you strength to go on at some crucial moment.

We are all dependent, all of our lives. Don't let dying with "dignity" keep  you from making a difference to others.

And by the way, the shelter still hasn't called... Little Buddy is the love of my life, along with his brothers and sister.

Sharon