Author Topic: advice pls: minor surgery = a flare?  (Read 3117 times)

4Kids

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advice pls: minor surgery = a flare?
« on: September 10, 2011, 08:11:52 AM »
I have PCOS and heavy bleeding. Like 15-20days of my period a month. I started Metformin last week. I got scheduled Thursday for an edometrial ablation by Novasure which is a lazer burning off the lining of my uterus to lighten or stop the heavy flow.

I thought all was well until I researched. I have had four csections. Apparently classical sections make it dangerous but mine were bikini cuts.  I did have a hernia last surgery on my uterus where the scar is. It was repaired. by the same dr who is to do this surgery, who also didn't want to treat the hair loss until we know how i respond to metformin which so far is just fine.

So, I am unsure if I should have this minor procedure.

I am also curious if it will bring on a flare. I spent last winter tired as yell, followed by a humungous flare in April and May which I have just recovered from. I am very nervous about the thought of one before Christmas.

Help?

Eta: I forgot. I know darn well it is the pcos which is flaring the Sjogren's or bringing it out. Looking back, the worse the  PCOS gets, the worse the Sjs gets. The week before my period is to arrive, my Sjs symptoms are at their worst. I need the pcos treated but hormonal which he hopes the metformin will do but in two months we are to see what the next step is. I want more help ASAP but am having little luck finding it. Don't know what to do.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2011, 08:15:13 AM by 4Kids »
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Nancy60

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Re: advice pls: minor surgery = a flare?
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2011, 09:19:22 AM »
Hi 4Kids,

I don't know that my comments will help you as I haven't had the c-sections etc...that you had, but I did have the Novasure Endometrial Ablation done without any problems and it didn't trigger any kind of flare, it was a really easy procedure with little recovery time needed (maybe a little cramping for 2-3 days and some minor spotting/drainage for about a week).  I had been told off-handedly, by one doctor that I had PCOS, but another said no, not necessarily.  The Novasure took care of the bleeding issues completely though and that has been wonderful!  and no flare from the procedure.  I did mention my Sjogren's to the anesthesiologist and he used some ointment on my eyes but I wasn't really out for all that long anyway.  I hope this helps you.  If it is the same doctor that did you other surgeries then he should be aware of all the issues with them and the Novasure, but if you are having any doubts, call and ask your questions now, you need to feel comfortable with the procedure before you have it.  Good luck to you!

Nancy

Happy

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Re: advice pls: minor surgery = a flare?
« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2011, 10:54:59 AM »
I think any trauma to the body no matter how slight can send us into a flare, my last sinus surgery almost three weeks ago has sent me into a major flare which hasent let up yet,, not that it ever goes away,, but its not down to the managable level yet

4Kids

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Re: advice pls: minor surgery = a flare?
« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2011, 11:41:17 AM »
Thank you both so much. I do agree anything can send us into flares, but knowing Nancy you have been through it and did not flare is reassuring. The csections part I will phone him about. Nancy did it help your symptoms?
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Nat

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Re: advice pls: minor surgery = a flare?
« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2011, 12:21:58 PM »
Hi 4kids- I am sorry you are dealing with PCOS in addition to your Sjogren's. I think you may be right when you say, "PCOS is flaring the Sjogrens." Both PCOS and Sjogrens have a strong link to the autonomic nervous system. I have been posting a great deal of information on the connection to Sjogren's and a dysfunction in the autonomic nervous system called dysautonomia. Here is a study that shows the connection to PCOS and the autonomic nervous system. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18055040 So, you may be right on track with your feelings that they are connected.

Here is another connection you may not be aware of. Metformin is also used to control insulin resistance. PCOS is associated with insulin resistance. Dr. Ron Rosendale states, " autonomic functions; those functions that you don't necessarily think about but which determines much of your life (and health) such as body temperature, heart rate, hunger, THE STRESS RESPONSE, fat burning or storage, REPRODUCTIVE BEHAVIOR, and newly discovered roles in bone growth and SUGAR LEVELS. A dysfunction in the autonomic nervous system is involved in insulin resistance.

There is a reason to be concerned about stress making your PCOS and your Sjogren's worse. If, PCOS, Sjogren's and insulin resistance are all associated with a dysfunction in your autonomic nervous system, then stress would place an additional burden on the ANS, thus very likely making things worse. Here is why.
Adrenaline is one of the neurotransmitters that regulates the autonomic nervous system. Both adrenaline and noradrenaline are synthesized and stored in the adrenal medulla from the essential amino acid phenylalanine.
In situations involving physical or psychological stress, much larger quantities are released. This would of course further burden an already overtaxed and malfunctioning system.

It is well known that Metformin depletes vitamin B12. The other neurotransmitter ,besides adrenaline, that regulates the autonomic nervous system is acetylcholine. Acetylcholine is derived from choline. Choline is derived from B12 and folate. So, by taking Metformin, you are also further depleting the ability of your ANS to function properly. (This information is not being given as advice to stop your medication, just so you are able to make an informed decision.)


Nancy60

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Re: advice pls: minor surgery = a flare?
« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2011, 12:42:45 PM »
4kids,

Yes, the Novasure took care of the heavy bleeding for me.  I was bleeding around 3 weeks at a time, then stop for about a week, then start again, and it was so heavy I was going through pads and tampons every hour, I would flood, have huge clots, plus all kinds of PMS symptoms.  The first doctor I went to did an endometrial biopsy and an ultrasound.  she called me with the results and over the phone said all my problems were because of my PCOS (which I had no idea I had - my periods have always been like clockwork and usually were heavy).  She didn't offer any treatment other than hysterectomy so I got a 2nd and 3rd opinion.  The other 2 doctors said the polycystic ovaries that showed up on ultrasound didn't necessarily mean PCOS and I don't have some of the other classic symptoms, they also gave me the option of Novasure.  I am very glad I got another opinion.  We pretty well decided I don't have PCOS.  The Novasure worked well for me, stopped all bleeding, but I understand most people still have light periods afterwards.  One other thing, I have had other surgeries and I don't seem to flare very bad afterwards, everyone is individual and reacts differently.  How did you do after your C-sections?  I would think that might be a better indicator of how you might react. 

Nancy

Happy

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Re: advice pls: minor surgery = a flare?
« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2011, 01:04:35 PM »
Hi 4kids- I am sorry you are dealing with PCOS in addition to your Sjogren's. I think you may be right when you say, "PCOS is flaring the Sjogrens." Both PCOS and Sjogrens have a strong link to the autonomic nervous system. I have been posting a great deal of information on the connection to Sjogren's and a dysfunction in the autonomic nervous system called dysautonomia. Here is a study that shows the connection to PCOS and the autonomic nervous system. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18055040 So, you may be right on track with your feelings that they are connected.

Here is another connection you may not be aware of. Metformin is also used to control insulin resistance. PCOS is associated with insulin resistance. Dr. Ron Rosendale states, " autonomic functions; those functions that you don't necessarily think about but which determines much of your life (and health) such as body temperature, heart rate, hunger, THE STRESS RESPONSE, fat burning or storage, REPRODUCTIVE BEHAVIOR, and newly discovered roles in bone growth and SUGAR LEVELS. A dysfunction in the autonomic nervous system is involved in insulin resistance.

There is a reason to be concerned about stress making your PCOS and your Sjogren's worse. If, PCOS, Sjogren's and insulin resistance are all associated with a dysfunction in your autonomic nervous system, then stress would place an additional burden on the ANS, thus very likely making things worse. Here is why.
Adrenaline is one of the neurotransmitters that regulates the autonomic nervous system. Both adrenaline and noradrenaline are synthesized and stored in the adrenal medulla from the essential amino acid phenylalanine.
In situations involving physical or psychological stress, much larger quantities are released. This would of course further burden an already overtaxed and malfunctioning system.

It is well known that Metformin depletes vitamin B12. The other neurotransmitter ,besides adrenaline, that regulates the autonomic nervous system is acetylcholine. Acetylcholine is derived from choline. Choline is derived from B12 and folate. So, by taking Metformin, you are also further depleting the ability of your ANS to function properly. (This information is not being given as advice to stop your medication, just so you are able to make an informed decision.)
In a nutshell Nat,, its called burnout,,

Nat

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Re: advice pls: minor surgery = a flare?
« Reply #7 on: September 10, 2011, 01:53:42 PM »
lol! Yes, Happy, burnout! But...Look how easy this would be to fix. 2 missing neurotransmitters that may very well have led to Sjogren's, PCOS, and insulin resistance. Where did they go? And what else will happen unless you find them? If adrenaline is derived from phenylalanine and phenylalanine has been found lacking in autoimmune sufferers (studies show it has), then what other organs and systems besides your ANS would be affected?

Phenylalanine also converts into tyrosine. Tyrosine is the precursor to both of the thyroid hormones, thyroxine and triiodothyronine. A lack of these hormones could lead to hypothyroidism.
Tyrosine also is needed for the synthesis of dopamine.

Phenylalanine is also the precursor to both of the adrenal hormones adrenalin and noradrenalin.

No wonder autoimmune sufferers are stressed and tired and every little thing can send them into a flare. All this from one missing essential amino acid.

4Kids

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Re: advice pls: minor surgery = a flare?
« Reply #8 on: September 10, 2011, 02:11:55 PM »
Nat, thank you for that insight. I have recently lost thirty-two puns which has not yet had an effect on my hormone levels. Other than nutrition, I am listening to any suggestions as to how to find the missing neuro transmitters or anything else you may be able to suggest. The birth cpntrol pill? A different med? I started showing signs of a-typical pcos in job school.

As for stress,n the past year and a half my daughter was hospitalized with a life threatening case of rotovirus, my mother was found to have a brain tumour (which I diagnosed) and stage iv lung cancer. Although i have yhred siblings and four kids, I cared for her until her death. She passed one year ago tomorrow. She was at home. Lots of stress.

My husband is a high-needs high-maintenance person who is used to me doing everything. After the north of my third and fourth children, he went to school for eight weeks and i was alone, recovering from my csections taking care of four kids alone. Now he wants to work up north for a week, and for us to move to a farm where I would take care of the cows and kids and farm while he is gone. So stress is huge in my life.

Recovery from surgery: well, I normally have very little help and husband does not realize or help much. I started to get sick after the third because I could not recover or rest. I do not sleep thrpuh the niht be ause someone always wakes up. Dh will not help at night. After my fourth recovery took ten weeks, mostly due to am undiagnosed Uterine infection.

So if it similar to childbirth, I cannot do that riht now.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2011, 07:22:54 PM by 4Kids »
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4Kids

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Re: advice pls: minor surgery = a flare?
« Reply #9 on: September 10, 2011, 02:27:24 PM »
Goodness, sorry for the auto correct nightmare.
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Nat

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Re: advice pls: minor surgery = a flare?
« Reply #10 on: September 10, 2011, 03:42:33 PM »
4kids, you really do have a lot on your plate. You will need to get out of this though, the same way you got in. Through diet.
In order to find missing amino acids, you need to know where to look. As I said, I have posted studies to show autoimmune sufferers lack the essential amino acid phenylalanine and B12. Here are the titles of a few.

"Multiple Sclerosis Associated with Vitamin B12 Deficiency"
"Sjogren's Syndrome Associated with Vitamin B12 Deficiency"
"Vitamin B12 Deficiency Common in Primary Hypothyroidism"
"High prevalence of low plasma thiamine concentration in diabetes.." (Thiamine is B12, but you cannot absorb B1 if you lack B12-it is excreted in your urine, which is what the researchers found was happening)

Where do you find B12? ANIMAL PROTEINS.
Where do you find phenylalanine. HIGH PROTEIN FOODS.

Most of us eat proteins that contain phenylalanine and B12,such as eggs, meat, fish and dairy. So why are we lacking B12 and phenylalanine? Because we can't break the proteins down. I have posted numerous studies to show this is the case. I will post some again if you like. I recently posted a study that concluded the "absorption of B12 is dependent on the presence of appropriate pancreatic enzymes." If you lack pancreatic enzymes, you will not be able to metabolize B12 or break down proteins into essential amino acids. You will not be able to replace these enzymes through supplements. The main one found lacking is a protease called DNase 1. It is not available in supplement form. If you  check my past posts by viewing my profile, I have recently posted some information on the increased disease risk associated with B12 supplementation. You can go through my posts if any of this is ringing true for you and get some more information on the disease process  and an idea of what you can start eating. I will help in any way I can.

4Kids

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Re: advice pls: minor surgery = a flare?
« Reply #11 on: September 11, 2011, 09:11:15 AM »
I saw Nat that you recommended fresh organic sauerkraut. I have yet to find it available in my city but am looking. Other than that I am a bit embarassed to admit though I read the studies and your posts, i do not always fully understand what it is I need to do on a concrete level, ie how to I get the missing neuro transmitters and what do I eat and not eat.

I know a bit about primal eating, ie Mark Sisson. Is that the correct path, that you think? I myself have a very hard time not eating carbohydrates although with the mouth issues it has become easier as it is very hard to eat grains now. Primal recommends no grains. I have tried for a meal or two a day.

We eat grass fed beef and pork here. I grow things in ky garden. Will keep looking for foods like sauerkraut. I have never made fermented pickles so would have to learn. Not sure of any other lacto fermented foods to try.

Basically, it embarasses me to say I do not follow or comprehend the bio chemistry info you post, so I am very appreciative of your help and advice but will need a translation to plain English. Not ejough sleep in this brain. Last night was a good night, i only woke up four times. Lol.

I realize the decision is my own but as I understand it, you believe the ablation could send me into a flare? I am leaning toward now not being a good time but. I want less bleeding. Fast.

As for adjustijg my hormones with food and nutrition alone, I will have no hair left. If I choose to get help hormonal with no metformin, I need to find out what my options are.  Darn if i know.

Thank you for offring to help. Pm if you like. I used to be very smart and can understand a lot of processes but i was never good at sciences or math, lol.
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Nat

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Re: advice pls: minor surgery = a flare?
« Reply #12 on: September 11, 2011, 12:12:07 PM »
4Kids-Please don't be embarrassed in any way if you do not understand the science right away. I have been doing this for awhile. It is like speaking a foreign language at first, but soon you will become fluent. I am not that smart. And I really mean that. I have quite an advantage though. One I want to share with anyone who will listen. It is a master formula for autoimmune disease, called the PEDD (pancreatic enzyme deficiency disease)Pathway. With this formula you can find the origins of any symptom of autoimmune disease. You can also trace the symptoms of other diseases or conditions if they have the same symptoms of autoimmune disease. I will give you an example of this in a minute.

I did not even know what PCOS was when I first read your post. By using the PEDD formula (and the Internet)  I was able to determine it was associated with insulin resistance. With this information, I knew it had to originate with either the autonomic nervous system or elevated levels of tumor necrosis factor. All I then needed to do was find a study to prove it.  The study and scientific evidence I provided proved that it is indeed connected to the autonomic nervous system. I am sure there is also a connection to elevated tumor necrosis factor as well. I just thought it best to stop with the ANS so I didn't overwhelm you. So, the question is, how did I know it was connected to either the ANS or tumor necrosis factor? I only had a few choices given to me by the PEDD pathway. The other choices were high homocysteine, lack of amino acids, or lack of B12. (the autonomic nervous system dysfunction is really lack of amino acids at its core). I actually looked for a connection to B12 first, but moved on to the ANS when I saw that PCOS was connected to insulin resistance. (I already knew that insulin resistance originated with the ANS and elevated tumor necrosis factor from a previous search).

So, here is the master formula for tracing each and every symptom of autoimmune disease. For the first time,   you are working backwards and this formula will take you to the source of autoimmune disease itself.

Dietary proteins are broken down by pancreatic enzymes called proteases. If you are unable to break down dietary proteins, you will not be able to release essential amino acids or B12. Without B12, a potent neuro and blood vessel toxin (homocysteine) will rise. Without proteases, you will not be able to recycle tumor necrosis factor. So, at the heart of every symptom of autoimmune disease is either: lack of essential amino acids, lack of B12, elevated homocysteine or elevated tumor necrosis factor. This is the enzyme-B12-protein pathway.

To test this theory, I found a Fibromyalgia Differential Diagnosis List. These are conditions or diseases that share many of the same symptoms as Fibromyalgia. There were 45 conditions and diseases listed. I chose one of the diseases on the list that looked as though on the surface, it could not possibly be connected to the autoimmune pathway. The disease was dysbarism, which can be seen in scuba divers. Webster's Dictionary gives the definition of dysbarism as, "A reaction to a sudden change in environmental pressure, such as rapid exposure to the lower atmospheric pressures of high altitudes. It is marked by symptoms similar to those of decompression sickness."

Webster's dictionary continues, "Nitrogen narcosis-Nitrogen comprises 79% of the air breathed by aerobic organisms, but at surface pressures it has no sedating effect. At greater depths, however, nitrogen affects the brain in precisely the same way as Nitrous oxide (also known as laughing gas).

That part looked interesting. Here's what I discovered. According to www.wellness.com, "Nitrous oxide inactivates the cobalamin form of B12 by oxidation. Symptoms of B12 deficiency , including sensory neuropathy,
myelopathy, and encephalopathy, can occur within days or weeks of exposure to nitrous oxide anesthesia in people with subclinical B12 deficiency."

The implications of this are astounding! I began to understand that the commonality of the symptoms was a clue that they all originated from the same souce. I could do the same thing with every disease on the list.

I will PM you with some more diet ideas.

4Kids

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Re: advice pls: minor surgery = a flare?
« Reply #13 on: September 11, 2011, 07:02:09 PM »
Nat I am looking forward to the pm. I have my cbc from shortly after I was ill if it helps. Something tells me adrenilin mixed with lethal doses of sugar are what did me in. How would i reverse the damage of that?
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Nat

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Re: advice pls: minor surgery = a flare?
« Reply #14 on: September 11, 2011, 08:07:04 PM »
I wouldn't beat yourself up too much. Autoimmune disease has tripled in just the last few decades. The cards are stacked against us like never before. Many of the medications we are given, to the chemicals we use on our lawns will increase our risk of developing autoimmune disease. The reason for this is these medications and chemicals kill enzymes. The top three drugs known to induce lupus are hydralazine, procainamide, and isoniazid. They are all ENZYME BLOCKERS. The very dictionary definition of a poison is that it kills enzymes. That is why insecticide exposure is linked to autoimmune disease. As the following information states, "pesticide exposure has been linked to the development of rheumatoid arthritis and lupus. The average peach has 50 different pesticides sprayed on it. So, it is not only important to eat foods that contain enzymes,but it is equally important to not destroy the ones we have. I think the human body has an amazing capacity to heal. I use whole organic herbs, mostly in tea form, as my medicine. I have seen them do things you could not believe.

https://www.rheumatology.org/about/newsroom/2009/2009_am_18.asp