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Sjogrens Topics => Living With Sjogren's => Topic started by: SjoGirl on August 14, 2019, 05:22:58 PM

Title: New study about connection between gut bacteria and dry eye
Post by: SjoGirl on August 14, 2019, 05:22:58 PM
Found this on the AARDA Facebook page today https://sjogrenssyndromenews.com/2019/07/30/alterations-in-gut-bacteria-may-be-linked-to-eye-dryness-in-sjogrens/?fbclid=IwAR0MZlXQ1n15dwLQ-QLKuhzzEbtUsa_3IWVSs8n5DxnXjLGT8uhXFMA7tWI

Title: Re: New study about connection between gut bacteria and dry eye
Post by: araminta on August 15, 2019, 10:44:42 AM
Interesting, thanks for posting.   I'm presently taking some probiotics in the hope of improving my IBS type symptoms.   No change so far but it's only been a couple of weeks.
Title: Re: New study about connection between gut bacteria and dry eye
Post by: SjoGirl on August 15, 2019, 12:51:45 PM
Araminta, what probiotic are you taking?
Title: Re: New study about connection between gut bacteria and dry eye
Post by: Sharon on August 15, 2019, 03:24:50 PM
Good article SjoGirl.
From my understanding of the article we have more than anything else an abundance of "bad bacteria".
Probiotics won't change that. Wonder what dietary changes might?
Title: Re: New study about connection between gut bacteria and dry eye
Post by: araminta on August 16, 2019, 03:13:09 AM
Araminta, what probiotic are you taking?
   The exotic sounding Bioglan Biotic Balance Ultimate Flora. :)   I'm in the UK so maybe this is only available here.   It contains Lactobacillus acidophilus, Lactobacillus ramnosus, Bifidobacterium longum, Sacharamyces boulardii.   
Title: Re: New study about connection between gut bacteria and dry eye
Post by: araminta on August 16, 2019, 07:42:31 AM
Good article SjoGirl.
From my understanding of the article we have more than anything else an abundance of "bad bacteria".
Probiotics won't change that. Wonder what dietary changes might?
   True, that's what it sounds like.   Maybe I'm wasting my money here.
Title: Re: New study about connection between gut bacteria and dry eye
Post by: SjoGirl on August 16, 2019, 09:01:25 AM
Good discussion and questions. When I first got sick I visited a holistic practitioner who put me on probiotics. Those actually caused more issues than not, my nose started to break out in pustules, I had the runs, etc. So I weaned off of them but then ended up on a PPI for years.

I am just now weaning off of the PPI and switching to Zantac or Pepcid because the PPIs are increasingly shown to have serious effects when used longterm. I have been having more and more heart palpitations and believe the PPI is one of the causes.

I too wonder about foods. The problem as I perceive it is that there are hundreds, I think maybe millions of gut bacteria. I don't know how one crafts a diet to decrease some without maybe creating another imbalance. I suppose is what we have the scientists and personalized medicine for.

I am going to an AARDA autoimmune conference in Pittsburgh in September. They will be featuring folks from a new autoimmune research/treatment center at Allegheny General, maybe they will speak to this or I can ask about it.
Title: Re: New study about connection between gut bacteria and dry eye
Post by: rapnzl on August 19, 2019, 09:20:43 AM
Thanks, Sjogirl. :)

Looking forward to reading about what you learn at the conference!
Title: Re: New study about connection between gut bacteria and dry eye
Post by: irish on August 19, 2019, 06:41:25 PM
The think to remember with all these nutritional items is that they want to make money and taking a pill every day or a whole bunch of pills every day makes them money. I noticed that when I ate yogurt every day I soon got a belly ache and would end up with diarrhea.

Sooo, I have the probiotic that I have picked out and I will take one a day when I am on antibiotics. At least for a while. I sort of let my gut be my guide. When I am not taking antibiotics I find that one a week seems to be a happy medium. I I eat too many carbs or sugar I will sometimes add an extra one. Like all things we have to pay attention to our body.

I can't say that I have ever had any problems from probiotics other than with the antibiotics taken without probiotics. It makes sense to take certain ones and a certain amount. If you read up on bile acid diarrhea and irritable bowel syndrome you will see some interesting info on probiotics and the gut in relation to a lot of health issues..also use the words bile acid malabsorption.  Irish

P.S. I did a little research on probiotics and found a very long article on side effects from probiotics. It really did surprise me and it makes one think even more about all the meds we put in our body. I did this study a few months ago when I was encouraging my son to take probiotics once a week or so. He read the article and I think it scared him a whole lot.
Title: Re: New study about connection between gut bacteria and dry eye
Post by: rapnzl on August 20, 2019, 08:25:20 PM
Good article SjoGirl.
From my understanding of the article we have more than anything else an abundance of "bad bacteria".
Probiotics won't change that. Wonder what dietary changes might?

I recently viewed a presentation by a renowned cardiologist (yes, that's what I said...lol) in my state who has been researching the connection between diet and heart disease.  He makes a compelling, scientific argument for removing wheat and wheat products from our diets. Folks he's studied who were successful in doing so experienced less inflammation (read "arthritis" - osteo and rheumatoid), lost weight, improved cholesterol, lowered HgbA1c, and host of other benefits. He doesn't claim any specific correlation between dumping wheat and improved "gut biome", but acknowledges that, while still emerging, the science of gut bacteria is related to all of this.

There are many different bacteria in our digestive tracts, and some are capable of producing serious - possibly lethal - consequences if they run amok. So, I'd not be surprised if a connection can be found between that and Sjogrens...or any auto-immune disease.
Title: Re: New study about connection between gut bacteria and dry eye
Post by: Sharon on August 22, 2019, 05:37:33 PM
rapnzl- I have found everything you stated about wheat products to be true in my case. If I eat anything with gluten I have arthritic flares and malaise. I have tested negative for Celiac, it's just an unrelated general inflammatory respose. Dairy and sugar- same. My issues all began with gastro symptoms, so I tend to agree it may be related to AI illness.
There is so much talk about "healing the gut" for various illnesses, but I don't think anyone has found the magic recipe to do just that. I have heard that fecal transplants do actually help in many cases, but it's not a one-time thing.

irish- Indeed, I have had pretty bad side effects with some probiotics. Others just don't seem to do a thing.   
Title: Re: New study about connection between gut bacteria and dry eye
Post by: SjoGirl on August 23, 2019, 01:21:08 PM
There is so much talk about "healing the gut" for various illnesses, but I don't think anyone has found the magic recipe to do just that. I have heard that fecal transplants do actually help in many cases, but it's not a one-time thing.

What does it's not a one-time thing mean? Do the transplants have to be done every so many years?

Even though I too tested negative for Celiac I stopped eating wheat about 10 years ago. Do I cheat on occasion? Yes.  Do I regret it? Yes. I have similar symptoms of lethargy and swelling. My issues also started in my gut but as noted there are so many flora down there so it's really difficult to know just now what is causing what (or isn't).
Title: Re: New study about connection between gut bacteria and dry eye
Post by: irish on August 23, 2019, 09:09:00 PM
There was an article just recently about celiac and people who are not celiac feeling better off of wheat.

He went on to explain that these people are not "celiac" or in that category but that they have an inflammatory response to wheat and they get miserable when they eat it. This is not an allergy either he said. Some people are just more sensitive to some foods and do better leaving them out of their diet. I thought that sounded reasonable. Irish
Title: Re: New study about connection between gut bacteria and dry eye
Post by: Sharon on August 24, 2019, 02:17:07 PM
irish- That sounds about right. My gluten intolerance began with my SS symptoms, so I believe that the added inflammation from gluten on top of the baseline inflammation that comes with SS made the difference for me.

SjoGirl- Regarding the fecal transplant depends how long it takes for your natural flora to take over again. I've heard some may need to have it done about every six months.
Title: Re: New study about connection between gut bacteria and dry eye
Post by: rapnzl on August 24, 2019, 08:51:08 PM
Irish... it sure is complicated! What it boils down to is that we can be "gluten sensitive" without a positive celiac test, and still have problems. There are tests, now, for specific antibodies - through specialized labs that not every one of our docs might use. Watch for mention of Tissue Transglutaminase Antibodies.

There are reasonable, rational docs who believe we are all gluten sensitive, to some degree....and that we were not meant to eat the grain we call "wheat" today. In essence, we "evolved" wheat before we evolved enough as humans to digest it properly. Gluten is the key to the alteration of the immunology in our intestines, they say.

As a nurse, seeing docs talk about this stuff is scaring me into starting a wheat-free diet without getting a celiac test. I've never had digestive problems, but have a lot of food allergies....um....and, auto-immune stuff. There has to be a connection here. If Sjogrens is auto-immune, what can it hurt?  ;)
Title: Re: New study about connection between gut bacteria and dry eye
Post by: SjoGirl on August 27, 2019, 09:33:09 AM
Irish, when I tested negative for Celiac my former allergist said that did not mean that I was not gluten sensitive. He said that the way to tell was this:

1. Stop eating wheat for 4-6 weeks.
2. Try wheat products and see what happens
3. Don't try only once, try, go off of wheat and try again.

As he said, we eat many things in a given day, we could be reacting to something else, that is the reason for multiple tries.
Title: Re: New study about connection between gut bacteria and dry eye
Post by: irish on August 27, 2019, 10:20:57 PM
My hubby was diagnosed with Celiac back in 1977 and I think he had it when we married in 1964. In 1977 there were no fancy blood tests. He had a couple scopes and swallowed a silver bullet that clipped off tissue from his small intestine which showed some issues associated with Celiac. The main thing that convinced his GI doc off the bat was when he saw hubby for the first time.

Doc said hubby looked like he was starving to death. He did blood work and his folic acid was zero....none in his body. His cholesterol was 150. Doc said that there were not too many people in our country on a normal diet who ran a 150 cholesterol and the cause was most likely malnutrition/celiac. He put him on the gluten free diet and hubby gained 10 pounds the first month. Our son has the same symptoms as hubby but no blood work that would indicate it.

He was wasting away. He had known for several years that he probably had celiac but just avoided facing it. One day he was walking across our farmyard and he could have been blown away by the wind as he was wasting away. He also had the gray pallor like his dad did. I told him it was time to make the diet change before he got in big trouble with his health. He did the diet and in one month he had gained 10 pounds.

This sons little boy at age 3 started fussing so at meals and would just scream. It took forever for me to figure out that he was having rectal spasms. He would tear his clothes off from the pain. He ended up with about 5 bigger very sore ulcers on his tongue which his mom texted pictures of to me. I texted back "time to see pediatrician for celiac". They took him and doc said skip the medical work up and go straight to the diet. Family history explains it. That boy watches his diet like a hawk and is 11 now.

Just our families experience with gluten free/celiac. Everybody in our family can cook gluten free and read labels like crazy. It isn't that hard once you get in the swing of things. A gluten free diet is not the best diet for others to be on who don't need it. I had noticed that all the recipes use so many eggs and oils and I learned to cut down on this when I baked. Doctors articles say to avoid these diets unless you really need them cause they can cause some nutritional issues. Some say to take a vitamin pill when on gluten free diets. Hubby tried that but the vitamin pills just really tore his stomach up and gave him cramps. Probably from all the dyes used back then.

People who are suffering from symptoms indicative of celiac need to take it very seriously as untreated it can go on to cause death. Literally die from malnutrition like the people in 3rd world countries. Weight loss, scurvy, bone loss, blood pressure problems...all these health issues come from the malabsorption brought on by the severe scarring of the small intestine. The small intestine absorbs the nutrients and with sprue this malabsorption can eventually affect the absorption of all nutrients.

Rather interesting disease process that is passed on through family and in the european countries, around Germany, etc. Now, with intermarriage all over the world. Diagnosed big time during WW 1 and 2 when people were starving in war torn countries. They would often end up eating pretty much a rice cereal diet and their health would improve. I'm sure many of you have come upon this info. Good luck. Irish
Title: Re: New study about connection between gut bacteria and dry eye
Post by: SjoGirl on August 28, 2019, 02:13:03 PM
Irish, this part of your comment hit home:

"Doc said hubby looked like he was starving to death. He did blood work and his folic acid was zero....none in his body. His cholesterol was 150. Doc said that there were not too many people in our country on a normal diet who ran a 150 cholesterol and the cause was most likely malnutrition/celiac. He put him on the gluten free diet and hubby gained 10 pounds the first month. Our son has the same symptoms as hubby but no blood work that would indicate it."

When I first became ill I was down to 99 lbs (I was typically about 115 -120 -- I'm small). I looked malnourished and eventually had a bone marrow biopsy which showed that I had zero storage iron. I have also always tended to have low Vit D levels.

Changing my diet in several ways along with anti-inflammatory meds have made a huge difference. Up until I quit my PPI I was about 112 now I'm up to 115. I hope to not gain too much more but my doc (and husband) have said I can stand to gain a few pounds.

Finally, you are right, gluten sensitivity can kill a person as can anything that blocks absorption.