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Sjogrens Topics => Living With Sjogren's => Topic started by: topping21 on September 24, 2012, 02:34:43 PM

Title: Flu Shot? Can/Should we get them?
Post by: topping21 on September 24, 2012, 02:34:43 PM
Need help in making a decision to get the flu shot this year.  In years past I have gotten them but then again this was before my SS DX. 

Any recommendation would greatly be accepted.

Thanks Again,

Jeremy
Title: Re: Flu Shot? Can/Should we get them?
Post by: jazzlover on September 24, 2012, 02:36:56 PM
Count me OUT!
Title: Re: Flu Shot? Can/Should we get them?
Post by: Dolly Dimples on September 24, 2012, 02:50:44 PM
 I say yes Jeremy, we Sjoggies are suseptical to many illnesses, such as Pneumonia,
    the jab helps to make it less dangerous. I have had mine every year for the past 15 years, and do great with it..
                  The only stipulation is that one is not allergic to eggs!   Go ahead, Dolly (UK)
Title: Re: Flu Shot? Can/Should we get them?
Post by: Joe S. on September 24, 2012, 03:08:45 PM
I had mine today.
Title: Re: Flu Shot? Can/Should we get them?
Post by: eyeamdry on September 24, 2012, 03:11:35 PM
My rheumy usually makes sure i get mine, although I don't see her until Dec.  I see my GP on Friday and maybe I'll get it then.
Title: Re: Flu Shot? Can/Should we get them?
Post by: engy on September 24, 2012, 03:17:03 PM
Never did until last year. Yes, I will this year too.
Title: Re: Flu Shot? Can/Should we get them?
Post by: mshistory on September 24, 2012, 03:44:29 PM
Got mine last week, and with my lung issues, I will DEFINITELY be getting one every year!
Title: Re: Flu Shot? Can/Should we get them?
Post by: gmomjuju on September 24, 2012, 05:46:58 PM
My rheumy gave me mine today.

Title: Re: Flu Shot? Can/Should we get them?
Post by: Styx on September 24, 2012, 05:52:57 PM
Typically, the answer is "the benefits vastly outweigh the risks, even (or particularly) if you are immunocompromised."

But definitely ask your doctor.
Title: Re: Flu Shot? Can/Should we get them?
Post by: Cdbhappy on September 24, 2012, 06:30:55 PM
I'm scheduled to get mine next week. Just can't imagine trying to fight the flu with such a dry cough already.
Cdbhappy
Title: Re: Flu Shot? Can/Should we get them?
Post by: slccom on September 24, 2012, 07:03:59 PM
I've never missed one. And I've had Sjogren's all my life, with no problems.
Sharon
Title: Re: Flu Shot? Can/Should we get them?
Post by: P.Trish on September 24, 2012, 07:05:02 PM
I got one 6 days ago. Then only noticeable side effect was some redness and swelling at the injection site (lasted for 3 dys). Rheumy recommended the shot.
Title: Re: Flu Shot? Can/Should we get them?
Post by: Patze on September 24, 2012, 07:53:21 PM
If you're having questions about the flu shot, please do talk to your doctor about it.  Like some of the others, I get them every year too.


Patze
Title: Re: Flu Shot? Can/Should we get them?
Post by: cargillwitch on September 25, 2012, 07:33:14 AM
I opt not.

Even more so now- don't need my immune system over responding to injected stimuli.

Unlike others here however I am not on immunosuppressants so not at as high a risk for flu complications.

 Very personal choice - READ and educate yourself; don't rely on just a doctor or people here to sway your feelings
Title: Re: Flu Shot? Can/Should we get them?
Post by: A66eyroad on September 25, 2012, 11:00:44 AM
I've gotten a flu shot every year. The bank where I used to work paid for us to get them, and I just think it's a good idea.

All three of my doctors (G.P., rheumy, GYN) are advocates of the flu shot. I've never had a reaction and I haven't had the flu for years.  As crummy as I feel from day to day, I can't imagine having the flu on top of that!   :o
Title: Re: Flu Shot? Can/Should we get them?
Post by: jazzlover on September 25, 2012, 03:32:37 PM
I can't believe most here are getting flu shots. I will not put that poison in my body!!

Vaccine Fillers and Ingredients

In addition to the viral and bacterial RNA or DNA that is part of the vaccines, vaccine fillers and ingredients include:

aluminum hydroxide
aluminum phosphate
ammonium sulfate
amphotericin B
animal tissues: pig blood, horse blood, rabbit brain,
dog kidney, monkey kidney,
chick embryo, chicken egg, duck egg
calf (bovine) serum
betapropiolactone
fetal bovine serum
formaldehyde (EMBALMING FLUID)
formalin
gelatin
glycerol
human diploid cells (originating from human aborted fetal tissue)
hydrolized gelatin
monosodium glutamate (MSG)
neomycin
neomycin sulfate
phenol red indicator
phenoxyethanol (ANTIFREEZE)
potassium diphosphate
potassium monophosphate
polymyxin B
polysorbate 20
polysorbate 80
porcine (pig) pancreatic hydrolysate of casein
residual MRC5 proteins
sorbitol
sucrose
thimerosal (MERCURY)
tri(n)butylphosphate,
VERO cells, a continuous line of monkey kidney cells
washed sheep red blood cells
Title: Re: Flu Shot? Can/Should we get them?
Post by: Styx on September 25, 2012, 03:42:08 PM
Jazzlover, source?
Title: Re: Flu Shot? Can/Should we get them?
Post by: THE BRIT on September 25, 2012, 03:49:12 PM
  I got mine yesterday from my rheumy and have for the last few years as he said if I got the flu it would be bad.  I am also curious where you got that list of ingredients from.  The vaccine is such a small amount. 
Title: Re: Flu Shot? Can/Should we get them?
Post by: jazzlover on September 25, 2012, 04:20:01 PM
Jazzlover, source?

eek... I'll have to search.. I found this on another site and I'm not sure the source was there.

editing to add... the person who posted it did not have a source.

Go here for info:

articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2011/10/31/flu-vaccination-epa-safety-limit-for-mercury.aspx

put "http://" in front
Title: Re: Flu Shot? Can/Should we get them?
Post by: Styx on September 25, 2012, 04:48:08 PM
Ok. I just want to point out that Joseph Mercola has been and is currently being warned by the FDA to stop making illegal claims about his products, and he's got a pretty long history on quackwatch.

That doesn't necessarily mean anything regarding the veracity of your claim, but it would definitely be good to find the original source. If it's just him, that's certainly a problem.

His most recent warning letter from the FDA:
http://www.casewatch.org/fdawarning/prod/2011/mercola.shtml

Styx
Title: Re: Flu Shot? Can/Should we get them?
Post by: Iris on September 25, 2012, 07:46:44 PM
Here's a site that lists some ingredients from earlier flu vaccines.. I see a lot of stuff on your list but most of the animal stuff or antifreeze I don't see.. But I do see one from 2007 that says Dog kidney cells..  :o

novaccine.com/specific-vaccines/vaccine.asp?v_id=16

I don't know if it's a reliable site or not..
Title: Re: Flu Shot? Can/Should we get them?
Post by: lolo1979 on September 25, 2012, 08:30:51 PM
I am going to back jazz lover up on this one. I've done hours and hours of research on this subject since I have 2 young boys. Now'a days babies have to get a ridiculous amount of vaccines- all before the age of 2. So I've done the research, and though not every ingredient jazz lover listed is necessarily in the flu shot, that list is definitely an accurate depiction of what goes into many other vaccines. 

Not to mention that you bypass the body's first line of defenses (skin, mucous membranes) and inject these things directly into your blood stream-- with nothing "softening the blow".

Anyway I can't post the research now because I'm on my phone, but I will definitely make it a point to come back soon and share some more mainstream info on this subject. Something others might find more credible than mercola (though I am a mercola follower too).

Ultimately though, it's important to remember that vaccines are like any other medicine. There's no predicting how you will react or tolerate it. And where one might have an adverse reaction, another might do just fine.  We shouldn't demonize vaccines...they are a powerful tool in our modern day arsenal against infectious disease. But, when deciding whether or not to get a shot, it pays to go through the risk vs reward analysis as we do with any other medication. 
Title: Re: Flu Shot? Can/Should we get them?
Post by: Styx on September 25, 2012, 09:01:14 PM
Here's a site that lists some ingredients from earlier flu vaccines.. I see a lot of stuff on your list but most of the animal stuff or antifreeze I don't see.. But I do see one from 2007 that says Dog kidney cells..  :o

novaccine.com/specific-vaccines/vaccine.asp?v_id=16

I don't know if it's a reliable site or not..

A website dedicated to "study vaccine data from a non-medical point of view" is not a good start, IMO.

The accessory links (often dead) typically point to sources that don't list ingredients.

I am going to back jazz lover up on this one. I've done hours and hours of research on this subject since I have 2 young boys. Now'a days babies have to get a ridiculous amount of vaccines- all before the age of 2. So I've done the research, and though not every ingredient jazz lover listed is necessarily in the flu shot, that list is definitely an accurate depiction of what goes into many other vaccines. 

Not to mention that you bypass the body's first line of defenses (skin, mucous membranes) and inject these things directly into your blood stream-- with nothing "softening the blow".

Anyway I can't post the research now because I'm on my phone, but I will definitely make it a point to come back soon and share some more mainstream info on this subject. Something others might find more credible than mercola (though I am a mercola follower too).

Ultimately though, it's important to remember that vaccines are like any other medicine. There's no predicting how you will react or tolerate it. And where one might have an adverse reaction, another might do just fine.  We shouldn't demonize vaccines...they are a powerful tool in our modern day arsenal against infectious disease. But, when deciding whether or not to get a shot, it pays to go through the risk vs reward analysis as we do with any other medication. 

I'd be happy to discuss this on a separate thread.

I'm not too interested in the ingredients of the vaccine. I'm more interested in discussing their safety.

"Vaccine safety" is not very controversial in medicine due to the overwhelming amount of data demonstrating that they do not cause harm (aside from the usual suspects: allergic reaction, etc.). An example of something controversial in medicine would be "using corticosteroids to treat patients with Sjogren's syndrome" because there is barely any data on the matter, and steroids are very dangerous.

In the end, like you, I'm ultimately just interested in the truth. Vaccines certainly have risks, but I would still argue that not taking them is not a good decision. In addition, in the case of vaccines, it may also endanger your community.

Styx
Title: Re: Flu Shot? Can/Should we get them?
Post by: matildamillicent on September 26, 2012, 12:02:48 AM
I was told I should be getting it. I've had the flu three times in my life. First time when I was 8, second time when I was 19 and the third time last week and I'm still recovering. My symptoms started with dry eyes when I was 6. So I don't know, but I'll continue to get them.

Title: Re: Flu Shot? Can/Should we get them?
Post by: Katybarstool on September 26, 2012, 12:44:51 AM
I'm having mine this weekend. I've had it every year for the past 10 - and the pneumonia one early on too. My dad died in a flue epidemic, and that's enough for me. Besides, I have brochiectasis and asthma, so am pretty vulnerable to the effects of full blown flu.

Kathyx
Title: Re: Flu Shot? Can/Should we get them?
Post by: mshistory on September 26, 2012, 04:01:09 AM
I personally don't care if vaccines contain eye of newt and monkey tails. What's important to me is that they have a long history of safety and efficacy, and the flu shot can prevent me from catching a virus that could be life-threatening. The risk of having an adverse reaction to any vaccine is extremely small. The risk of me landing in the hospital with breathing complications from the flu are pretty darn high.

I don't understand the concern over vaccine ingredients - we are exposed to far more harmful chemicals by breathing city air (especially where I live).

In addition to getting our flu vaccines, it's probably a good idea for us to ask our doctors about a pertussis booster since so many of us have lung involvement, and the CDC is predicting a sizeable pertussis outbreak this season.
Title: Re: Flu Shot? Can/Should we get them?
Post by: cargillwitch on September 26, 2012, 09:35:26 AM
a point to note is the flu shot you receive this year is a guess as to what flu strain MAY be dominate this season.

At any time millions of variants exist  and are mutating in  active circulation - just because you get "a" flu shot does not mean you have protection from all these illnesses- only the strain in the injection.

As a nurse I am constantly bombarded with notices from the Public Health Agency that question efficacy of a variety of vaccines- most notably pertussis  and  measles  that still have  incredibly high rates of illness even in vaccinated individuals.I also see many frustrated parents attempting to have their infants adverse reactions to vaccines  "put on record"- something that unless a coroner makes a note NEVER happens.

Remember that vast amounts of money are made on these vaccines - and as someone with an immune system dysfunction, injecting  foreign materials into my body with the hope it will illicit a response from my immune system gives me pause to consider every part of  its composition.
Title: Re: Flu Shot? Can/Should we get them?
Post by: MissyLouWho? on September 26, 2012, 09:50:35 AM
I skip mine now.  I always end up with a nasty virus a few days after I get it.   The years I skip, I don't get anything (knocks on wood  ;))
Title: Re: Flu Shot? Can/Should we get them?
Post by: sceezix on September 26, 2012, 07:06:48 PM


THANK YOU JAZZLOVER -- nope, nada and never will I have another flu shot (or any other vaccine).

Title: Re: Flu Shot? Can/Should we get them?
Post by: jazzlover on September 26, 2012, 07:19:36 PM
Styx... the ingredients COMPROMISE SAFETY!! That is the whole point!!!

Quackwatch sucks bigtime. Just ask any Lyme patient.

I have had maybe two flu shots in my lifetime. (??) I have not had the flu in about 35 yrs. Why mess with a good thing? Yes, I'm now knocking on wood!!  ;D

-
With regard to Mercola and his products,  I don't buy any, but he is right about SO MANY health issues.

(PS.. I will not have ANY vaccines either. They can crash my immune system, allowing the Lyme disease to come back on me.)
Title: Re: Flu Shot? Can/Should we get them?
Post by: Styx on September 26, 2012, 09:34:16 PM
Actually, for now, I won't try to convince you that vaccines are safe.

mshistory said it best.

More importantly, I want you to understand  that running around listing the ingredients of vaccines is not helpful at all. Methotrexate is a powerful abortifacient and very toxic, yet it has dramatically improved the quality of life for patients with rheumatoid arthritis around the world. Water is highly toxic if consumed in great quantities

This is why medical science judges the merit of a drug based on its performance in controlled trials. The ingredients are not the point.

Styx
Title: Re: Flu Shot? Can/Should we get them?
Post by: Iris on September 27, 2012, 08:09:57 AM
I don't really care what the ingredients are.. I'm more worried about whether i'll get the flu if I take it.. I've only had one flu shot in my life and I did get the flu after taking it.. Maybe it was a coincidence, I don't know but i'm kinda scared to try again.. It surprised even my doctor, he doesn't even want me to get a flu shot now so if I got one i'd probably have to get it somewhere else..

With all the breathing problems I have now though i've been thinking about getting one.. Been thinking about getting the shingles vaccine too.. I have 2 sisters that had shingles, one of them had it more than once.. I'm not sure if that makes me more susceptible.. I know I really don't want shingles though..
Title: Re: Flu Shot? Can/Should we get them?
Post by: slccom on September 27, 2012, 11:34:13 PM
The flu shot does not convey 100% immunity. One reason is that besides the main strain we get vaccinated against, there are many other strains of flu virus. You may have been incubating the flu when you got your shot, or gotten sick with a different strain, or failed to develop immunity tomain strain.

Now they have two strains in the vaccine this year. Tomorrow I want to get my shingles shot. Next week, the flu shot.

Sharon
Title: Re: Flu Shot? Can/Should we get them?
Post by: jazzlover on September 28, 2012, 09:13:26 AM
So if we don't care what is in the shots, do we also not care about what chemicals we ingest in our foods?? .. just wondering..
Title: Re: Flu Shot? Can/Should we get them?
Post by: JaFish on September 28, 2012, 09:44:07 AM
I used to get a shot faithfully each year and each year end up with bronchitis.  One year I was sick within 2 weeks of getting the shot. Then I learned I'm allergic to chicken eggs! So no more flu shots and no more bronchitis. I make all the other members of my family get the shot, though, to lessen the possibilities that they will bring home the flu!

Title: Re: Flu Shot? Can/Should we get them?
Post by: slccom on September 28, 2012, 01:29:44 PM
Jazzlover, the dose makes the poison. The American Council on Science and Health put together an analysis of the Holiday menu. Search "Holiday menu" and read the article. It is a real eye-opener.

ACSH is a favorite enemy of some strong anti-every, thing-modern organizations like the misnamed Union of Concerned Scientists and Jacobson's group, also misnamed, the Center for Science in the Public Interest.

I have worked for and with them, and strongly recommend them. I know the science, and they are right. Keep in mind that alarmist groups do not get money by telling people that well, we are all living longer and healthier lives, and better lives with more luxuries and less hard work. No, they get money by scaring us to death.

Sharon
Title: Re: Flu Shot? Can/Should we get them?
Post by: Styx on September 28, 2012, 02:11:30 PM
So if we don't care what is in the shots, do we also not care about what chemicals we ingest in our foods?? .. just wondering..

It's complicated :) I do worry about what is in my food for different reasons.

Namely, we can't perform well-controlled trials with food given the diverse diets that people eat. You can study particular populations with particular diets, but even then, there are typically strong geographical, genetic, cultural differences, etc. So you end up doing a lot of multivariate analyses and it's difficult to extrapolate high-quality conclusions from the data.

I actually did do some reading based on this thread, and I did see some literature that concerned me regarding vaccines, but I was just skimming the surface. I'm going to keep reading...

My more immediate point is that with vaccines, we don't need to pay close attention to the ingredients because we have data from controlled trials that is more relevant.

Styx
Title: Re: Flu Shot? Can/Should we get them?
Post by: jazzlover on September 28, 2012, 04:30:18 PM


My more immediate point is that with vaccines, we don't need to pay close attention to the ingredients because we have data from controlled trials that is more relevant.

Styx

-

I do NOT trust "controlled trials".. they can be skewed and manipulated at will. I've been around the block a few thousand times on that issue.

-- as for foods.. I was referring to GMO "foods" and the chemicals put in "food" found at the grocery store.
Title: Re: Flu Shot? Can/Should we get them?
Post by: Styx on September 28, 2012, 04:47:37 PM

I do NOT trust "controlled trials".. they can be skewed and manipulated at will. I've been around the block a few thousand times on that issue.


I agree. Even the scientific literature is corruptible, but as far as I know, it's the best we've got. If you find me a source that is more precise and less biased, believe me, I'll take it.

I'm not saying the literature is the word of god or even that I always agree with it; I'm just saying in this particular discussion considering the contrary evidence presented, it's pretty clear cut.
Title: Re: Flu Shot? Can/Should we get them?
Post by: odie on September 28, 2012, 06:29:19 PM
I haven't posted my experience yet with Sjogren's, but on the subject of flu shots, I won't be having them ever again.  I did have one last year and shortly after I really went downhill with symptoms that turned out to be Sjogren's.  Coincidence or not, I'm not taking any chances of getting worse. In the past, after taking the flu shots, I always felt worse and on a couple of occasions got the flu within a couple of weeks.